Soccer

USA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GOALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

WOOOOOOOO,HOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!! lol.

01_usa_soccer.jpg
 
I am also watching.
Great turn by Altidore to make that goal!
Spain better put on their shooting boots if they want to make a difference the next half.
YOO ESS AYE! YOO ESS AYE!!!
 
Can you believe it????
GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Bittersweet for Pique... he scored a goal like the one Dempsey scored in that one against Real Madrid earlier this year.
 
Tim Howard played a perfect game. Casillas, I don't think made a single save.
Great stuff from the US side. They played a really determined match. Was also really impressed with Bocanegra's defending was spotless and Donovan showed what MLS players can do!
 
Congrats, US!

You deprived us of a record (having won this match we would have beaten the all time record of 35 matches of a national team in official competition w/o losss)..

Anyway:

Great Goalie, he saved you in this 2nd half that Spain played really well...

But the god of soccer did not want to let oour balls enter... :(

What I liked about the match: No hard entries (of cause, this is more a friendly tourney, and nobody wants to risk a lesion), and the only hard entry was punished with red direct (Bradley, does he have a relation with the coach?).

What I did not likle about the match: The Ref. Even if its only Confed cup and played during holidays, a semi-final of whatever intl competition deserves a ref team that is up to speed (the las offside of casey they signalled was at least a yard inside the correct space, and this is just one example).

US (if you permit me this excursion) played and won "German" style: 2x4 defender rows (actiin close to perfection one must say) and waiting for the counter attack, very physical (though I do not uderstand that some players in such a setup are overweight like e.g. Casey). Plus the excellent goalie, this time was sufficient.

Now, go and take the title!

Congrats again, entertaining match,

Rattler
 
Last edited:
I'd have to agree, except with the red card agreement. He was on the ground, CLEARLY going after the ball. Quite honestly, I thought Ramos' literally tossing Donovan to the ground was a bit brash, but that was just me.


I DEFINITELY agree that Tim Howard ABSOLUTELY saved us. It was his half.
We'll have to certainly play more offensively if we're to win the final.
 
Rob Henderson said:
-snip- ...except with the red card agreement. He was on the ground, CLEARLY going after the ball. ...
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, for the rules going for the ball or not does not count when you enter against a leg with a stiff leg and the foot up ("plancha" in Spanish, a good picture as it means "clothing iron"), and the red was perfectly ok from the rules POV:

If yo hit the leg, you break it, and rules in the last decade have been changed to preserve the technical players against brute force that does permanent (or long lasting) physical harm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEsq0J7XEw8 (only view if you can stand blood and gore), see seconds 0:41 plus, two "planchas" that take a leg apart like nothing.

Rattler
 
Last edited:
rattler said:
Unfortunately, for the rules going for the ball or not does not count when you enter against a leg with a stiff leg and the foot up ("plancha" in Spanish, a good picture as it means "clothing iron"), and the red was perfectly ok from the rules POV:

If yo hit the leg, you break it, and rules in the last decade have been changed to preserve the technical players against brute force that does permanent (or long lasting) physical harm.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEsq0J7XEw8 (only view if you can stand blood and gore), see seconds 0:41 plus, two "planchas" that take a leg apart like nothing.

Rattler
Click to expand...

Actually, it DOES matter. If a player blatantly slide tackles another player into the shins with the intentions of breaking his legs, it's a red card no question. But if a player is sliding for the ball (be it to save a cross, goal, etc) then that player is USUALLY allowed to tackle. It wasn't a tackle from behind, it wasn't an overtly dangerous challenge (not in danger of breaking anything)... It was NOT a red card offense. And I've got news for you, if it had been the other way around, I'd be just as outraged at it. It was not a good call. It was an over reaction.
 
Rob, sorry to disagree (you are talking to an amateur class ref here):

Going for the ball as excuse and/or exemption from the red card has *long* (15 yrs IIRC) gone from (FIFA) soccer rules, same (nor *so* long) the "attack from behind" qualifier.

FIFA Rules, re: "Going for the ball", Excerpt from Q+A section (Violet Emphasis by me):

[FONT=Verdana, Helvetica] Red Card - A player must be shown a Red Card and "sent off" (i.e., made to leave the field) for the 7 offenses listed below.

A player shown a "Red Card" & sent off may not be replaced during that game (i.e., his team must play a player "short" for the rest of the game; however, in some leagues a player may be replaced if he is ejected for receiving a second Yellow Card).

The 7 offenses for which a player must be shown a Red Card and sent off are: [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Helvetica]

1. serious foul play (includes any use of excessive force or brutality against an opponent when challenging for the ball.

Examples include a dangerous slide tackle from behind, or an "over the top tackle" in which a player raises his foot so the cleats could hit a player -snip- or a two footed tackle that takes down the opponent.

FIFA has broadened this definition by saying that "Any player who lunges at an opponent in challenging for the ball from the front, from the side or from behind using one or both legs, with excessive force and endangering the safety of an opponent is guilty of serious foul play.

For current rules visit www.fifa.com, Laws of the Game. The above quote is from Questions and Answers, Additional Instructions for Referees).

The rules now include "Decision 4", which says: "A tackle, which endangers the safety of an opponent, must be sanctioned as serious foul play". -snip-
[/FONT]
Click to expand...
Bradleys foul was an "over the top tackle" (plancha), the cleats were clearly facing Xavi Alonsos shin and the sole vertical.

EDIT (Added): I do not know the *national* rules in US, you might well be right there (each nation has individual rules, like UEFA also has its own rule set), but in intl. games FIFA rules apply.

Rattler
 
Last edited:
What's up with the us of a beating our best european team so easily? Get back to football guys- this is our domain, don't you try to take it away from us, or punishment will be more than cruel ;).
Anyways- congratulations on your victory... but you won't see any more victories against Germany in the future ^^
 
As a former licensed referee myself, I have to agree with Rattler though I do understand where Rob is coming from.
Most referees would not have sent him off for that, especially as the result of the challenge wasn't disastrous to any individual.
But according to the laws of football, you can get sent off for that sort of challenge so there's not a whole lot we can say about it.
 
Gentlemen, I'm a licensed referee myself... I've officiated plenty of intramural, middle school, and AYSO games of all types. The thing it comes down to in my book is consistency. If the ref is going to red card players for a tackle that I wouldn't have called a foul in a middle school soccer game, then he should have been MUCH more strict with his bookings earlier on. Like I said, the US was NOT the only team playing physically.


Rattler, do you really believe he was in danger? Obviously nothing SERIOUS happened, so I wouldn't go so far as to say that the tackle endangered the player's safety. It's a classic case of selling the dive. Just because he's writhing on the ground doesn't mean there's anything wrong with him. He's just drawing a foul, something every professional soccer player does.

In any case, it's not a big deal, because the outcome remained the same with or without the red card.


And just to throw it out there, I'm not the only person who disagrees with the red card decision... The commentators on every show I've seen (ESPN and a British talk show reviewing the game's highlights) have said the same thing... "I don't see how he got sent off for that one."

http://www.mysoccerplace.net/video/usa-vs-spain-20-highlights

This clip has a really great angle of the challenge... Notice that as soon as Michael goes down, his boots actually go HORIZONTAL. NOT VERTICAL. As in, WASN'T A RASH CHALLENGE.

He slid in, but Xavi got the ball away, but this referee has NEVER been kind to us (the very same man officiated our match against Italy in the World Cup... We all know how well that went....). Like I said, it's all about consistency, if you're going to send a man off for that challenge, he shouldn't have been the only one red carded in the match.
 
Last edited:
Hmmm you may have a point here.
As per the laws themselves, yes you could get sent off for doing that but you're right, even when it comes to those challenges with the foot up, that was not exactly on the seriously malicious side.
Actually my first reaction was "What th...."
Then it sank in that you could argue that you could send someone off for that. But seriously... I've seen people get away with those without getting booked.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Hmmm you may have a point here.
As per the laws themselves, yes you could get sent off for doing that but you're right, even when it comes to those challenges with the foot up, that was not exactly on the seriously malicious side.
Actually my first reaction was "What th...."
Then it sank in that you could argue that you could send someone off for that. But seriously... I've seen people get away with those without getting booked.
Click to expand...

Just FDR: If the ref had sanctioned it "Yellow" it also would have been ok from my POV.

Being a ref is difficult:

- Not only do you not have the replays (...was the sole "elvated above 35 degrees"...?), but also you have to decide instantly on what you perceived (and perception may be influenced towards error by many factors - *see below)

- Then, as a ref, especially in eliminatory games cup style, you also have a twofold responsibility that only the best always can get under one hat:

a) not interfere too much so as to alter the match outcome arbitrarily

b) not interfere too little so as not to allow your passiveness alter the match outcome because players take advantage

- then, you cannot be everywhere all the time (while you in theory have to be "at the hieght of the ball", practically this is impossible most of the time if you are not superman able to for 90/120 minutes keep running double distance ín half the time as the athletes).

A good example yesterday: The (realitevely clear) penalty not signalled over Xavi (my take, the ref - and his team - simply did not see it), I will never discuss such stuff, as it happens to the best (*what* you can discuss are *decisions* as the red card, as he then obviously perceived something).

For me, both red an yellow are ok, it is a split secon decision under the parameters mentioned above.

P.S.: * as an example why refs err so often (like yesterday with Casey in min 80+) in offsides:

- The linier has to

a) keep the eys on the ball
b) register the exact moment when the pass is effectuated

- In the case of a 40 mtr pass, this is physically impossible (if the ref should not happen to be a chameleon with two seperatly movable eyes, but how would he communicate his findings then?)

So, what does the linier do?

- He looks at the ball
- He *listens* for the "thump" of the pass being executed
- Then he decides whether the attacker was offside or not.

The pass on Casey yesterday was 40+ mtrs.

Sound travels 330 mtrs/sec approximately at the temperatures and air density encountered there (valid for 20 degrees centigrade at 1014 hPa pressure).

This means, that the linier hears the "thump" after 0.15+ seconds, more or less (SA was hotter, so later).

In this time span, the running player (ok, Casey is overweight, but still he was trying to give some sprint) moves (assuming 10 m/s as top sprint speed for a well trained fresh player = 36 km/h) more than 1 meter (maybe even 2 in SA):

Even if he had had "equal height" (reminder: Player looks at the passer, so gets vis information at speed of light), for the linier it would be a clear offside.

This is why the ref teams need to undergo hard training to (e.g.) compensate for the physical imposibillities by deducting (estimated on the player speed) offside distances, or find other means.

Rattler
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top