Should Russia return the occupied 4 islands of Japan?

[Delta210]

And of course Chinese sources, i.e. the Communist Government, are unimpeachable and totally reliable.

 

[FlyingFrog]

And of course Chinese sources, i.e. the Communist Government, are unimpeachable and totally reliable.

You sound like you mistrust Chinese sources a lot, then I show you my second point in my previous post about the Fall of Iron Lady of Britain after talks with Deng Xiaoping, then think about my first point about UK didn't want to return HK at the beginning

http://img83.exs.cx/img83/9113/Margefall.gif

 

[Delta210]

Having served during the Cold War, and having studied history and current events, you are right in your assumption that I do not trust anything associated with Communism.

 

[FlyingFrog]

Yeah I can understand you.

But people should go when time goes, time has changed, so should people.

For example the communist party in China has changed a lot compared to 20 years ago, old generation leaders passed, new young and much more open-minded leaders show up, give them a bit credit will do us both good.

 

[Delta210]

Like everything else, they will be judged by their actions and by history. I am willing to have an open mind, but thus far I have seen little of encouragement. Maybe the new generation of leaders will decide to leave withdrawl from Tibet and return it to a sovereign nation once more. Call it a good will gesture of their new world outlook.

 

[godofthunder9010]

I believe the official Chinese policy toward Tibet is that because the Qing Dynasty occupied, they own it.

 

[Delta210]

Saddam said something similar about Kuwait, and Hitler used the same justification for the his territorial demands prior to the start of WWII

 

[godofthunder9010]

Saddam said something similar about Kuwait, and Hitler used the same justification for the his territorial demands prior to the start of WWII

The Chinese flatly deny Tibet ever having been a separate country. Apparently their neutrality during World War II was just a lack of provincial motivation. :lol:

Yes it should be a separate country, but China's never going to admit that.

 

[Delta210]

Ah yes. Well there you go. Everything nice and tidy, all loose ends tied up neatly. So the Tibeans are not really oppressed, they just misunderstand their Chinese brethren's motivation in bringing them back into the fold. Thugs are thugs are thugs regardless of nationality it seems.

 

[godofthunder9010]

Well, the initial push was to beat all Tibetan culture out of them, but you get the idea. Old Tibetan culture is HIGHLY religious, and hardline Communists had no tollerance for things like religion. As a whole, China is a lot less repressive against religion, but Tibet is another matter entirely.
fftopic:

Anyways, that's got nothing to do with the topic at hand.

 

[Delta210]

Agreed. Back on topic.

 

[godofthunder9010]

Feel free to start a topic on that of course. Just be diplomatic about it and everybody is okay.

 

[Boobies]

To..

Godofthunder and Delta, just admit the current rule in China and help to modernize. What is the point of trying to seperate China again. It just create more wars and death.

Would United States give the land bak to the native Indians and give California back to the mexicans? No...and I don't support that neither.

 

[Peanutcat]

Re: To..

Good say, Boobies

Almost everyone knows the dirty history, yours, his, mine,
is everyone now thinking of a clean future?

Godofthunder and Delta, just admit the current rule in China and help to modernize. What is the point of trying to seperate China again. It just create more wars and death.

Would United States give the land bak to the native Indians and give California back to the mexicans? No...and I don't support that neither.

 

[godofthunder9010]

I mostly have a problem with the "undeniable fact" that Tibet has always been part of China and that propaganda BS. If you have the clarity of view to say that it was its own independent nation in the past, then you demonstrate an open mind.

I don't know about Tibet, but I can guarantee that if the US gave ANY state back to Mexico, I can guarantee that the citizens would be absolutely against such a move. If they were put under Mexican rule anyway, there would be a bloody revolt.

 

[A Can of Man]

Personally I don't think China will go to grab eastern Russia. If China tried, it'd face a war against Russia, the USA, Japan and Korea. That is a war China will lose.
However, I do think China will become stronger than Russia pretty soon and I think they probably are already.
Japan is a country re-recognizing its tough, warrior heritage after decades of mostly ignoring it. I think the Japanese Prime Minister is trying to please the growing numbers of hard liners and conservatives in his country.
Russia should cede these Islands though, treaty or no treaty. I mean I know legally Russia can own it but I think just giving them back to Japan will bring much stability to a volitle region.
It's not really appeasement as Japan's not a military threat to anyone right now.

I think following:

Although Chinese have big problem with japanese at this moment and maybe in coming 50 years, but I think it is well possible:

Suppose China in 2050 is super super strong, 10 times stronger than Russia, and China goes to occupy whole East Russia, then japan will get the change again to get back these islands.

Well the New Territories were to be returned anyway because it was leased for 100 years from China and there was a contract about it.
As for the rest of Hong Kong, I think the UK really did realize that Empire Building was a thing of the past. Personally I don't think China would have driven into Hong Kong with tanks.
The idea of the UK giving Hong Kong up to China when the 100 years were up, and not just the New Territories was a foregone conclusion anyway.
I think this "she got scared of Deng" is a bunch of bull. They didn't call her the Iron Lady for no reason.

The US and UK have a pretty good track record of returning things to their owner, etc. Russia doesn't.

Not really, UK has lost her power, she is no more the Empire as she was before. UK didn't want to return HongKong to China, but Deng Xiaoping told their lady Thacther that if you don't leave, then I will send PLA to kick you out, so Thachther got terrified and fell from the traps of the Great Hall building when she left Deng :lol:

It is a matter how big your fist is, not you are kind or evil.

It's something I've warned you all about before a few times:
Chinese propaganda.

I've never heard of China threatening the UK over Hong Kong. We'll have to assume its a made up story unless you can provide a source. I can certainly imagine there is some basis for it. I'd just like to see an unbiased version of it.

That is a load of crap really, the thing about Tibet.

But I don't think the US would EVER give up any of the territories it took from Mexico either but it's been under US control for so long, and the people who live there are now essentially Americans by every stretch of the imagination so to return would be an act of lunacy.

I mostly have a problem with the "undeniable fact" that Tibet has always been part of China and that propaganda BS. If you have the clarity of view to say that it was its own independent nation in the past, then you demonstrate an open mind.

I don't know about Tibet, but I can guarantee that if the US gave ANY state back to Mexico, I can guarantee that the citizens would be absolutely against such a move. If they were put under Mexican rule anyway, there would be a bloody revolt.

MY APOLOGIES
I was reading this forum from the start and I didn't read "Back to topic"



Mod edit: Dont post back-to-Back....Use the edit button.

 

[godofthunder9010]

My entire point about the states that were once a part of Mexico: The people in those states WANT to be part of the US and not Mexico. The same could not have been said of Tibet when China invaded, however the Chinese have instituted mass-settlement of Chinese there, so a vote would likely be in favor of staying as part of China.

But the whole problem is that the topic has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO with China. Strictly a Japan/Russia issue.

 

[SerbianFMJ]

Doesn't america still hold lands that do not belong to it? For example probably the most well known "not-american-but under american control" has got to be Guantanamo. Shouldn't that land belong to Cuba, why doesn't the United States hand that over? After all, the "war" is over. (i'm just trying to make an argument, so please don't flame and no insult intended)
By the way, I read an article in Serbia this summer that talks about how Serbia and the US need to co-operate on terrorism, and how serbia is an stratigically important partner in the war on terror due to it's location between western europe and the middle east. Also because it has almost ten years of experience fighting terrorist backed groups in Bosnia and Kosovo. The KLA "freedom fighters" which you're ex-president Bill Clinton so happily supported took fair amounts of support from Bin Laden and Al-Qaida which also supported the muslim terrorists in Bosnia. And after reading Kerry's policy plans for Serbia and Kosovo, I have only one thing to say, F*$@ Kerry! :evil: :cen:

 

[A Can of Man]

I think (correct me if I'm wrong) the main reason why Clinton supported the KLA against Serbia was because of the mass graves and mass genocide thing. Basically the US and allies cannot back a group which is doing something that falls under the category of genocide.
Too bad the Muslims didn't think too kindly of the help they recieved from the West but I guess we shouldn't be too surprised.

What would you say is the terrorist involvement or residence is in Bosnia? I'm asking Serbian FMJ in particular.

 

[Snauhi]

those islands are just like Golan Hights= war booty.