Oliver Stone Praises Castro, Rips Bush
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Regarding the celebrities...
Remember that although they portray soldiers, statesmen etc. on the screen, in reality remember that they are actors.
Generally (I mean generally, not totally), people involved in the arts are people who feel... they are feelers not really thinkers. So they tend to lean to the left to begin with anyway.
To succeed in the field, you have to pretty much share the same beliefs. I'm sure we can relate to that too. If we meet someone with similar beliefs, we hit it off much better even if there are some radical differences.
Basically throughout their careers, starting from high school until college or whatever acting route they take they meet others of the same belief and solidify it. Also whenever they say things others think they are rewarded... not to mention the old fashioned sucking up tactic. When you keep repeating something to yourself, even if it really isn't making much sense, it will start to make sense, especially as others with the same belief fill in the gaps. Then eventually it will seem like the right answer to you. This is actually a bit like how brainwashing works... except you're doing it to yourself.
Remember the rule of Dale Carnegie... if you want your way with people, don't disagree or argue. Then of course when they're butter, they're all yours! lol
But yeah there's a little explaining.
They fail to realize what an incredible responsibility they have. When famous people say something people tend to believe it, especially if they're people who are linked in memory to something good. Actors tend to have that because they might remind us of a movie that made us feel good, so we're more prone to taking their opinion for fact on the spot. It's how the whole hierarchical diffusion works. Important guy does or says something, then it trickles down to a heck of a lot of people. And because we are better connected, diffusion reaches further and faster.
It's really an enormous power. People have to realize that most of these actors, though accomplished, are not TRAINED to think about these topics. Believe it or not, your mind needs training before it can actually make proper assessments and how some answers that seem right and feel right can have devestating consequences.
Remember that although they portray soldiers, statesmen etc. on the screen, in reality remember that they are actors.
Generally (I mean generally, not totally), people involved in the arts are people who feel... they are feelers not really thinkers. So they tend to lean to the left to begin with anyway.
To succeed in the field, you have to pretty much share the same beliefs. I'm sure we can relate to that too. If we meet someone with similar beliefs, we hit it off much better even if there are some radical differences.
Basically throughout their careers, starting from high school until college or whatever acting route they take they meet others of the same belief and solidify it. Also whenever they say things others think they are rewarded... not to mention the old fashioned sucking up tactic. When you keep repeating something to yourself, even if it really isn't making much sense, it will start to make sense, especially as others with the same belief fill in the gaps. Then eventually it will seem like the right answer to you. This is actually a bit like how brainwashing works... except you're doing it to yourself.
Remember the rule of Dale Carnegie... if you want your way with people, don't disagree or argue. Then of course when they're butter, they're all yours! lol
But yeah there's a little explaining.
They fail to realize what an incredible responsibility they have. When famous people say something people tend to believe it, especially if they're people who are linked in memory to something good. Actors tend to have that because they might remind us of a movie that made us feel good, so we're more prone to taking their opinion for fact on the spot. It's how the whole hierarchical diffusion works. Important guy does or says something, then it trickles down to a heck of a lot of people. And because we are better connected, diffusion reaches further and faster.
It's really an enormous power. People have to realize that most of these actors, though accomplished, are not TRAINED to think about these topics. Believe it or not, your mind needs training before it can actually make proper assessments and how some answers that seem right and feel right can have devestating consequences.
Italian Guy
Milforum Hitman
Courtenay said:
Is there another way of being smart ?
03USMC
Active member
Ah the intelligence of a man can be judged by how much he agrees with you. 8)
Asner also supported the Sandanistas in Nicaragua, and the Insurgents in El Salvador. He's displayed a pronounced communistic bent for years.
It seems that while all of these celebs support the cause of the communists they understand very little of how it works. They are fat happy and rich and don't understand that would all go away under a communist regieme along with their right to their opinions.
Asner also supported the Sandanistas in Nicaragua, and the Insurgents in El Salvador. He's displayed a pronounced communistic bent for years.
It seems that while all of these celebs support the cause of the communists they understand very little of how it works. They are fat happy and rich and don't understand that would all go away under a communist regieme along with their right to their opinions.
03USMC said:
That is the point really isn't it? They can sit here cushy and safe in America, and 'support' whatever the hell they want.
I think after the big McCarthy shake-up it became COOL to support communism, insurgency, etc. Why? Who the hell knows, other than maybe it is thier way of fighting against thier idea of the 'system'. Sort of like teenagers who never grow up.
:roll:
edited to add: ooooops, guess I said a bad word....sorry!
03USMC said:
I get your point. The problem lies in the fact that our culture blows up celebrities into some sort of demi-god status. Where they really believe that they somehow know everything. When they are stood up to, they disregard it. After all, how could we of lower status know anything?
It's twisted. But it's what it is.
Kind of like the statement to Martin Sheen....."You are NOT the President of the United States Mr. Sheen, you only PLAY him on TV." But when you hear him going on, you wonder if HE gets it!
03USMC
Active member
Your right they consider us as the great unwashed. They feel it is their "duty" to educate us. Because how could we know what is right and wrong unless instructed by someone who is in the ...... gasp......... movin pitchers.
Martin Sheen and politics hold on I gotta get the Pepto.
Martin Sheen and politics hold on I gotta get the Pepto.
03USMC said:
Unfortunately, we (we meaning the American public) put them on that pedestal. Human beings in general like to have someone or something to worship. And IMO it started with celebrity endorsements, probably going back most notably in WWII. It's the idea if you really like someone, then you'll like what they like. Simplistic, but it worked. So in WWII celebrities were used to endorse our war effort. Advertisers, seeing how successful that angle was, started doing the same.....and that has continued through to today. If your favorite star drinks diet coke, then drinking it yourself brings you somehow closer.....when you look at it logically, it seems ridiculous. But feelings are never logical.
Celebrities KNOW the power of their celebrity. It is in thier best interest to ***** it while they still have it, and they do.
Thing is, they also know the power of their celebrity to push whatever little private political agenda they have running through their normally less than educated or knowledgeable little heads.
Your average American seems unable to discriminate between the character they love on the screen, and the person playing the character. When that person comes out in favor of something, or against something, there will always be a whole flock of sheep following along. The celebrities KNOW this.....
What we should be letting them KNOW, is that we don't care what they think, or what they endorse. We like being entertained by them, and that's all we want from them...but it'll never happen.
03USMC
Active member
And there you reach the crux of the matter. The general public as you have stated puts these idiots on a pedastel and buys whole heartedly whatever comes out of their yaps.
Until the American public educates themselves and tells them to..Just act, sing or play with your ball ans STFU ." We will continue to be assailed by their leftist gibberish.
Until the American public educates themselves and tells them to..Just act, sing or play with your ball ans STFU ." We will continue to be assailed by their leftist gibberish.
I don't see much hope of that happening anytime soon. How many celebrities have been arrested for serious crimes and just gotten more popular while their fans flock to them in even greater numbers? We have created a new religion in this country where the faithful face Hollywood to bow and pray to their new gods.
Chocobo_Blitzer
Active member
I noticed Drew Barrymore has turned activist, now she's going around crying (literally) because people need to vote, and she clearly hates the Bush admin.
When you support Michael Moore.... like she does, it's pretty obvious..
When you support Michael Moore.... like she does, it's pretty obvious..
Courtenay said:
When I read your post i was immediately disgusted. And let me tell YOU the stuff that REALLy peeves me - how can someone who is CUBAN-AMERICAN know anything about what it is like to be CUBAN?!? I was born there, spend my childhood and adolescence there, so it's safe to say that I have some authority over you when it comes to Cuba. As far as your family working for anything - I question that because many, too many of Cuba's elite did nothing but reap the benefits of the racist, sexist and classist system that was already in their favor. America turned Cuba into this megalomanical place prior to Castro, they had control of just about everything. Fulgencio Batista, the president of Cuba, was really just a puppet. Interestingly, he was a mulatto, of mixed Black and White descent and he was not allowed to go into various social clubs because of the color of his skin - that's the Cuba that your family is nostalgic for, but that's Cuba that was hurting the majority of the Cuban people, the campesinos, the artists, the guajiros, the azucareros, the people of color and women.
You anti-Castro Cubans make me sick in more ways than one because you're only motivated by self-interest. What about the interest of the general populus. Let's just be honest hear - most Cubans in Miami, most anti-Castro Cubans (or anti-Cuban as I call them) are white, upperclass people, and they are the MINORITY. WHAT ABOUT THE MAJORITY??? The only thing you ever cry about is what you once had in Cuba, but it never dawns on you that there are people who have been affected by Castro's regime change. Take my great grandmother for exampl,e born in 1898, a woman of Afro-descent, who couldnt read until Castro's adminstration implemented reading programs for everyone. And maybe I'm biased because as someone of humble beginnings and being someone of mixed race, I have a soft spot for the changes Castro has made - it could be. But at the same time I think he's been dead wrong on so many things; he shouldnt have executed those men plotting in Panama, he should free all of the media people, he was too harsh on Cuba's elite, but damn it the man is HUMAN!! He's like every other world leader, made of flesh and blood, so he's going to make mistakes.
People need to stop obsessing over Castro because he's not going to live forever. We need to be concerned about the Cuban people because they're the ones suffering. NO MORE EMBARGO!!! America has a lot to share with Cuba, Cuba has a lot to share with America so let's start uniting. I think positive changes will come from cultural exchange.
Aida-
It is apparent that you and I sit on very opposite sides of the fence on our opinion of Castro, his government and how it has affected Cuba, and the Cuban people. You also make alot of assumptions about me, where I was born and raised, you do not know who I am or what experiences I have had in life, so do not assume you can know where I am coming from or feel you have a right to belittle my opinions because they do not match up with your own.
IMO you are very simplistic in your thinking, and it does not surprise me. I cannot and will not ever stand in support of any form of government which takes away the free will of its people. If you are so short-sighted that you can only see that your grandmother learned to read. And cannot see the pain and suffering, torture, abuse and relative bondage that has come with the Castro regime then there really isn't much that I can say to you that would change your thoughts and feelings.
I cannot say that I am happy about the embargos and how they have affected the people of Cuba. I have been on three humanitarian trips to Cuba over the last 10 years and have seen first hand the effects. But the ball is in Castro's court. You cannot put the blame on the US. Place it squarely where it belongs.
I am also literally appalled at your playing the color game. Black, white, mulatto....that is ludacrist. You must have learned alot of negativity about yourself and your color from here in the US where people like to break people out across color lines to bring dissention, anger and distrust. (and I wouldn't be surprised to find that the case in Cuba as well) The Cuban people I know see all Cubans as Cubans, which no difference based on ethnic background. There is this vacuum that minorities in this country seem to enjoy getting sucked into. Depending on the government to provide and take care. Instead of let's do for ourselves. Let's work and be successful to give the next generation a better life than what we had. Don't think that those who are supportive of that type of government aren't feeding that idea by the spoonful to minorities. Because they are. If the idea of communism, socialism, big government with a big iron hand appeals to you, then great. Hopefully you are still living in Cuba where you can fully enjoy it.
It is apparent that you and I sit on very opposite sides of the fence on our opinion of Castro, his government and how it has affected Cuba, and the Cuban people. You also make alot of assumptions about me, where I was born and raised, you do not know who I am or what experiences I have had in life, so do not assume you can know where I am coming from or feel you have a right to belittle my opinions because they do not match up with your own.
IMO you are very simplistic in your thinking, and it does not surprise me. I cannot and will not ever stand in support of any form of government which takes away the free will of its people. If you are so short-sighted that you can only see that your grandmother learned to read. And cannot see the pain and suffering, torture, abuse and relative bondage that has come with the Castro regime then there really isn't much that I can say to you that would change your thoughts and feelings.
I cannot say that I am happy about the embargos and how they have affected the people of Cuba. I have been on three humanitarian trips to Cuba over the last 10 years and have seen first hand the effects. But the ball is in Castro's court. You cannot put the blame on the US. Place it squarely where it belongs.
I am also literally appalled at your playing the color game. Black, white, mulatto....that is ludacrist. You must have learned alot of negativity about yourself and your color from here in the US where people like to break people out across color lines to bring dissention, anger and distrust. (and I wouldn't be surprised to find that the case in Cuba as well) The Cuban people I know see all Cubans as Cubans, which no difference based on ethnic background. There is this vacuum that minorities in this country seem to enjoy getting sucked into. Depending on the government to provide and take care. Instead of let's do for ourselves. Let's work and be successful to give the next generation a better life than what we had. Don't think that those who are supportive of that type of government aren't feeding that idea by the spoonful to minorities. Because they are. If the idea of communism, socialism, big government with a big iron hand appeals to you, then great. Hopefully you are still living in Cuba where you can fully enjoy it.
Courtney,
You should not be appalled by my consideration of racial differences because that is part of the history of Cuba. If you would to read about it or need more information, please feel free to e-mail me and I would be more than happy to share with you. If you read in Spanish, I could provide you with some Cuban authors as well as English authors. I also see all Cubans as Cuban, but I also take notice of the changes that exile and seperation have caused. I do not racialize my relationships with people, as Marti one said "Cultivo una rosa blanca,En julio como en enero, Para el amigo sincero Que me da su mano franca" and I treat my enemies the same. And for you to dismiss my claims on race as ludacris, shows your naivete and your lack of knowledge regarding Cuban history and latin american history for that matter. I suggest you do a lot of research, because if you want to help Cuban people, these are things you are going to have to consider. It's funny, you hate Castro so much, but he has the same notion as you - that race does not exist - but of course to people "del otro lado", from the normitive perspective, it's hard to examine anything that does not pertain to you. But you are the one who decided to focus on race, because I also mentioned class and sex as major issues of Pre-Castro Cuba, and still issues of the Cuba we now know. What have you to say about those?
You stated that you were Cuban-American, that was NOT an assumption that I made, and in that statement you identified yourself as both American and Cuban, and it is thus safe for me to say that you were born here because had you been born in Cuba, you would have declared yourself as a Cuban, perhaps one with American influences as am I.
Step outside of normalcy, and live in the country, speak with the people, read some of it's authors and stop just inhaling your families grief-stricken existence because Castro "stole" everything away from them. Hopefully when you were there, you went beyond Havana, saw the beauty of Pinar del Rio, Marianoa and Camaguey. I understand your anger and the anger of many Cubans because you're right it was unfair, but truth be told, some people are seeing the fruits of it. How come you can only see the bad?
I don't have to belittle someone who's not on my level - and I don't mean to disrespect you but until you read and LIVE in Cuba, don't visit on "humanitarian trips" and then act like that's enough, there is very little you can teach me other than what your life has been like here in the states (which would be something of interest actually). I don't mean to be condescending just honest, as well I could never dare tell your parents or my parents about what Cuba was like because they probably spent some of the most memorable days of their lives there. I only know about Castro's Cuba, so I'm blinded only to what the generations before me and books tell me.
You inferred that I was shortsighted because you picked and choose what you wanted from my initial statement, not realizing that I was using my great grandmother as a symbol for something. And I state in my statement that I agree that Castro and his administration have been dead wrong on various occasion, theyve been merciless and cruel - I'm objective, and you must have ignored that. But I would infer that you are shortsighted because you cannot see beyond your family's pain, not even to see as far as how Castro's regime has had some positive influences, even on someone like me.
And as far as this vacuum - I am far from that. I attend an Ivy League institution based on merit, I'm on a scholarship, I work, I provide for myself, my family and anyone that i can help. I've never taken any hand outs (mostly because of Cuban pride, haha) and EVERYTHING I have I deserved because I started and came here with nothing. I believe though that everyone should have had the opportunities that I had, the opportunity to make choices in this life, and hopefully for the better. Sadly too many people, white, black, latino, asian, male, gay female, whatever category exists, have been lacking choices because of the social hierarchy that is inherest to this society and to capitalism for that matter. And I don't want to label myself as a democratist, a socialist a communist or any other political system - I'm a humanist, in fact I'm a post-modern humanist. So before you go making assumptions about me, know that.
You should not be appalled by my consideration of racial differences because that is part of the history of Cuba. If you would to read about it or need more information, please feel free to e-mail me and I would be more than happy to share with you. If you read in Spanish, I could provide you with some Cuban authors as well as English authors. I also see all Cubans as Cuban, but I also take notice of the changes that exile and seperation have caused. I do not racialize my relationships with people, as Marti one said "Cultivo una rosa blanca,En julio como en enero, Para el amigo sincero Que me da su mano franca" and I treat my enemies the same. And for you to dismiss my claims on race as ludacris, shows your naivete and your lack of knowledge regarding Cuban history and latin american history for that matter. I suggest you do a lot of research, because if you want to help Cuban people, these are things you are going to have to consider. It's funny, you hate Castro so much, but he has the same notion as you - that race does not exist - but of course to people "del otro lado", from the normitive perspective, it's hard to examine anything that does not pertain to you. But you are the one who decided to focus on race, because I also mentioned class and sex as major issues of Pre-Castro Cuba, and still issues of the Cuba we now know. What have you to say about those?
You stated that you were Cuban-American, that was NOT an assumption that I made, and in that statement you identified yourself as both American and Cuban, and it is thus safe for me to say that you were born here because had you been born in Cuba, you would have declared yourself as a Cuban, perhaps one with American influences as am I.
Step outside of normalcy, and live in the country, speak with the people, read some of it's authors and stop just inhaling your families grief-stricken existence because Castro "stole" everything away from them. Hopefully when you were there, you went beyond Havana, saw the beauty of Pinar del Rio, Marianoa and Camaguey. I understand your anger and the anger of many Cubans because you're right it was unfair, but truth be told, some people are seeing the fruits of it. How come you can only see the bad?
I don't have to belittle someone who's not on my level - and I don't mean to disrespect you but until you read and LIVE in Cuba, don't visit on "humanitarian trips" and then act like that's enough, there is very little you can teach me other than what your life has been like here in the states (which would be something of interest actually). I don't mean to be condescending just honest, as well I could never dare tell your parents or my parents about what Cuba was like because they probably spent some of the most memorable days of their lives there. I only know about Castro's Cuba, so I'm blinded only to what the generations before me and books tell me.
You inferred that I was shortsighted because you picked and choose what you wanted from my initial statement, not realizing that I was using my great grandmother as a symbol for something. And I state in my statement that I agree that Castro and his administration have been dead wrong on various occasion, theyve been merciless and cruel - I'm objective, and you must have ignored that. But I would infer that you are shortsighted because you cannot see beyond your family's pain, not even to see as far as how Castro's regime has had some positive influences, even on someone like me.
And as far as this vacuum - I am far from that. I attend an Ivy League institution based on merit, I'm on a scholarship, I work, I provide for myself, my family and anyone that i can help. I've never taken any hand outs (mostly because of Cuban pride, haha) and EVERYTHING I have I deserved because I started and came here with nothing. I believe though that everyone should have had the opportunities that I had, the opportunity to make choices in this life, and hopefully for the better. Sadly too many people, white, black, latino, asian, male, gay female, whatever category exists, have been lacking choices because of the social hierarchy that is inherest to this society and to capitalism for that matter. And I don't want to label myself as a democratist, a socialist a communist or any other political system - I'm a humanist, in fact I'm a post-modern humanist. So before you go making assumptions about me, know that.