Obliterating Islamic State (ISIS)
Tuan
Irreplaceable Intelligencer
Agree with your point that terrorism cannot be militarily defeated completely, unless we come up with new ideas to counter the enemy's ideology. When fighting terrorism we have to be cautious; as Friedrich Nietzsche wisely pointed out "He who fights with monsters should be careful lest he thereby become a monster. And if thou gaze long into an abyss, the abyss will also gaze into thee."
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I don't know about all this neo-conservatism and liberalism stuff. But Russia sure gave it to them in the last week. Major infrastructure damage and destruction. The largest bombing raid in over a decade anywhere. The only problem with this massive type of bombing raids is one can't avoid the loss of civilians. As Brit said it may not be 100% defeated but it sure can be whittled down.
These attacks are completely unrelated to the Russian bombing. They have terrorist cells all over Europe, ME and Africa. What on earth makes you connect these 2 completely different set of events?
This will not be prevented by bombing and or attacking ISIS's conventional forces and main infrastructure in Syria and Iraq. 100's of million of dollars worth of oil under ISIS's control have been blasted to kingdom come. Over 500 oil bearing trucks destroyed. Arms and munitions factories destroyed. Countless ISIS enclaves have been blasted.
You been complaining for weeks that ISIS is not being heavily bombed (even suggesting the lunatic idea of nuclear bombs). When Russia pounds the hell out of ISIS dropping more bombs in less than a week than the coalition has dropped in a year you still complain. More bombs in fact than anyone has dropped in more than a decade anywhere in the world, in less than 1 week you still complain.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
To counter the terrorists ideology is not a job for the military, that is something for the civilian societies. The military can provide with the short term solutions, but not for the long term solutions. That is the job for the state building, the creation of the civil societies to address.
1)The attacks in Paris and Mali and what is happening in Brussels proves that ISIS is not defeated and even not seriously hurted by the Russian air attacks .
2) I like to see the PROOFS for the triumfant claims about the 100's milllion of dollars worth of oil lost and the 500 trucks destroyed
3 )"More bombs by the Russians in less than a week than the coalition has dropped in one year" : you admit that the coalition has done nothing ? Besides this proves nothing about the amount of bombs dropped and of the damage for ISIS
4) As long as the opponents of ISIS are using kid gloves, ISIS will grow and will kill .The only strategy that will work is to bomb them to hell .
It is not needed to counter the terrorist ideology,the only successful policy is to terrorize the terrorists and their accomplices,accomplices being those who are helping ISIS by not fighting and condemning ISIS: the 1.5 billion Muslims .As it is not possible to kill 1.5 billion people, let's kill the 50000 /100000 ISIS members,that will scare the others .Make an exemple .
Civilian societies are not defeating terrorists : the Rote Armee Fraktion was not defeated by civilian society,but by police .
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
How have military interventions worked out in the past? Do your home work, dumb nut. The military can provide with the short term solutions, but it cannot solve the grievance in the region. The military interventions will create new enemies. I don't expect you to comprehend these things, my dead dog has greater comprehensions about these things than you do. You will not scare them with your solution, you will create a mess. You want to use nukes against another country, that makes you very similar as the ISIS.
The law enforcement and the legal system belongs to the civil society, are you twelve? You are so incompetent so I have a problem to take you seriously.
You are talking foolish the Russians are not using kit gloves. They are using the heavy back fire bombers (their equivalent to our B-52) and cruise missiles. They ran ~ 140 sorties in 3 days alone. Proof do some research.
Tuan
Irreplaceable Intelligencer
That's exactly my point from the beginning. While counterterrorism is most often linked with the exercise of "hard power" (intelligence, law, policing, and military power), it must increasingly make use of "soft power" (political, social, and economic control, together with broader policy initiatives dealing with the environment, development, critical infrastructure, migration, and humanitarian intervention); in which a nation's civil society plays a vital role. That's why Professor Joseph Nye, who coined the term "soft power" wrote that a viable civil society would help mitigate violence.
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
Professor Nye isn't the only one speaking about this, it has been discussed within conflict studies for a very long time when it comes to conflict resolutions and during reconciliation processes after armed conflicts.
European countries can take a closer look at how good they are to integrate other people into their societies. When people don't feel they are a part of the society economically, politically and socially. Be prepared for reactions
I don't care about the grievance in the region : we are at war ,and during WWII no one cared about the grievances of Germany .
As usual : it is our fault :shock:
It is not on us to integrate them : it is on them to adapt to our norms ,and if they do not like our norms ,the conclusion is : go back .
No one asked them to come .
MontyB
All-Blacks Supporter
So you think they have become radicalised for fun?
Somewhere out there a Muslim kid is saying "Hey i'm bored got a spare explosive belt, I have nothing going on this afternoon so I thought I would spread myself all over mall somewhere".
If you think people become terrorists in a vacuum you are horribly deluded to the point of being dangerously naive, these people exist because they have a grievance whether it is real, perceived or a mixture of both it largely irrelevant as it clearly is powerful enough to attract followers.
So yes there is a military aspect to defeating armed terrorism but there is also a political and social aspect to fight as well in order to reduce the numbers flocking to these groups.
That's not correct : the aim of these people is to force the world population to become muslim and to kill everyone who refuses to convert.
There are no social causes fot ISIS,to say that there are social causes is proving that one tries to use "western" arguments to explain what's happening outside the west .
People outside the west are living in an other culture,in an other world .
As Kipling said :west is west and east is east and they never shall encounter each other .
If someone is saying : we must understand their motives, he is very dangerously close to say :we must talk to them ,which is : we must negotiate, we must compromise ,we must surrender .
One does not talk,compromise, negotiate with criminals : one kills them .
Was there some one in the US on 9 december 1941 who said :there is a political and social aspect to fight against Japan, we must know the grievances of Tojo, of the Japanese ?
No : the answer was : inconditional surrender .
It must be the same answer today .No talking,but shooting .
There are no social causes fot ISIS,to say that there are social causes is proving that one tries to use "western" arguments to explain what's happening outside the west .
People outside the west are living in an other culture,in an other world .
As Kipling said :west is west and east is east and they never shall encounter each other .
If someone is saying : we must understand their motives, he is very dangerously close to say :we must talk to them ,which is : we must negotiate, we must compromise ,we must surrender .
One does not talk,compromise, negotiate with criminals : one kills them .
Was there some one in the US on 9 december 1941 who said :there is a political and social aspect to fight against Japan, we must know the grievances of Tojo, of the Japanese ?
No : the answer was : inconditional surrender .
It must be the same answer today .No talking,but shooting .
Backinblack
Active member
I3BrigPvSk
The Viking
I'm really happy you aren't a policy maker.
I am also happy that you are not making western policy, otherwise we would all shout Allah Akhbar several times a day .
We are at war, and the essence of a war is not to talk but to kill.
All the rest result in surrender .
If you don't want to kill in a war, you are lost .
We are at war, and the essence of a war is not to talk but to kill.
All the rest result in surrender .
If you don't want to kill in a war, you are lost .