Not my Flag!!!!!

You only backed up my statement. It's an easy thing to do. Working for change is beyond their willingness to make an effort. Again, it symbolizes us _all_ those for and _opposed_ to the current administration. They defame themselves as well as anybody else.
 
Charge_7 said:
You only backed up my statement. It's an easy thing to do. Working for change is beyond their willingness to make an effort. Again, it symbolizes us _all_ those for and _opposed_ to the current administration. They defame themselves as well as anybody else.
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so what you are saying is that you can make and easy statement (burn the flag) or work for change, but not both?
 
No, I'm saying the previlence of burning flags is an easy cop-out. Not a real effort and it doesn't even really make the point they intend as they fail to realize the flag flies for all views - their's included.
 
I've just had a very interesting thought of how you can check out the different feelings and reactions to flag burning in America. Now listen closely and don't do these in reverse so that you will be able to complete both tasks.
First, burn a flag in the midst of a group like Move On or the ACLU. Now repeat the act in the midst of a platoon of Marines while completely out of camera range.
This is not necessarily to Chewie but to anyone who wonders about what the flag really means to some of us.
 
Well the Maple Leaf Flag is what? 50 years old? You don't have the history with it that we do with the Stars and Stripes. Also, those very stars are a visible sign of our union - the bars a sign of our hard fought for independance. I will admit, however, that having a Canadian flag on a US hockey team locker room floor was poorly done. I'll have to take your word on that though as I have no knowledge of it. I'm sure the feeling though was in regards to your hockey team though and not your nation. Not really the same thing as the picture at the start of this topic.
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i dont think ur the right person to mind someone,expecially canadians,for the leinght of their existance,and the existance of their flag,remember,u are only 300 years old too,and yet dont show a piece of respect to some OLDER nations in world,think about it charge_7,and as for flag issue,its a crime to show dissrespect to any countries flag in that manner,especailly your own,id habg that SOB by his balls on that pole right next to him if i were american....

Mod Edit: Another PS message like that, and we'll delete you from this forum. Understood? Good. Carry on.
 
i dont care about how old the flag is it doesnt matter.....he has the right of freedom of SPEECH not draw and disrespect the entire nation....hippies are hippies there all over 50 years old...we really wouldnt have to worry about nothin.......i mean one of my teachers is a hippie sort of and hes cool (he screamed that he got laid at 15 and he had protection out of no where) The peace symbol hmmm..how can there be peace if there is people like saddam out there invadeing countrys killing his own people for no reason.....basicly he is saying that he doesnt think the soldiers are dieing for cause and there life is waisting away..well just screw him he doesnt matter what can he do? i bet he cant even work a gun there for own one
 
america is still very divided, ask any of my NYC homies and they'll tell u exactly the opposite of what u want to hear
 
clearly, those people do not care about the soldiers who died for that flag..

they are just thinking about themselves..not their country

i see too much ppl like them today
 
My post about the age of the Maple Leaf flag was not intended to show any kind of disrespect. Rather just to indicate how much of a lexicon it is with it's people. Marksman, where at any point did I say anything at all about any other nations? You call us a young nation and seem to feel that "300 years" is a trifle. Well it's actually 400 years minus 2 since Jamestown was founded. Far beyond the memory of living people. Our flag is 228 years old if you include the Bennington flag which predates the circle of 13 stars later made famous. Again far beyond the memory of living people. The same cannot be said for the Maple Leaf flag. That is _not_ a disparagement only a statement of fact. I'm sure the Maple Leaf flag is very dear to Canadians. I never said that it wasn't. My only point was that it doesn't have the long identity with the nation that our's does. So many of you "older" countries also seem to forget that although the land you are on has been inhabited for many ages your governments cannot all say the same. So many of you have gone through dozens of governments in fact while we remain the same. We are older than many of you.
 
Observe from where? How many years have you lived in the US? Have you set foot in the US even just for a tour? Have you had many American friends who stand on several sides of the political spectrum?
I know you have an alternative view point. But we need to know what you're basing it on. I base mine on the years I spent studying in the US. And during that time, I was actually taught by university professors (who pretty much are against Bush) what to look for in regional analysis etc (after all, I am a geographer). That's what I base mine on, personal experience and professional training.

chewie_nz said:
my americans credentials are clearly on display all through this forum.
i am a VERY interested observer, i don't pretend to be an expert and only try to offer my own opinion. alternative point of view and all that.

i don't mind having to defend my views.

but back to the topic at hand;

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/wpnz/dec1-03flagburning.htm

a case of flag burning in NZ
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chinaman..i could care less about city slickers. i suppose there not very patriotic. and How can you say my country is divided when yours had a massicer for a protest
 
I seem to have an aversion to big cities. But then again you have to understand their culture too. Cities are places where multiple types of people are crammed into a small area. If their tolerance level (i.e. the amount of stuff they can see and say "it's cool" to) isn't insanely high, they will have constant mayhem.
However, this can go too far. The Dutch can tell you all about that.
 
the_13th_redneck said:
Observe from where? How many years have you lived in the US? Have you set foot in the US even just for a tour? Have you had many American friends who stand on several sides of the political spectrum?
I know you have an alternative view point. But we need to know what you're basing it on. I base mine on the years I spent studying in the US. And during that time, I was actually taught by university professors (who pretty much are against Bush) what to look for in regional analysis etc (after all, I am a geographer). That's what I base mine on, personal experience and professional training.

chewie_nz said:
my americans credentials are clearly on display all through this forum.
i am a VERY interested observer, i don't pretend to be an expert and only try to offer my own opinion. alternative point of view and all that.

i don't mind having to defend my views.

but back to the topic at hand;

http://home.clear.net.nz/pages/wpnz/dec1-03flagburning.htm

a case of flag burning in NZ
Click to expand...
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no i haven't been to the states, i want to at some stage visit this mysterious holy grail that has such an effect on the worlds culture. but at tthis stage because of my age, my education and other factors in my life, i have not been able to travel very far out of NZ. i don't think that that makes my opinion any less valid.

as a relitively small & isolated country we tend to be influenced alot be the outside world....movies, music, business all have an effect on NZ. also as a nation of travellers i believe that we have an awareness of current affairs and an open world view that residents of less easily affected countries don't have.

through my education i read alot on 20th century history, was VERY interested in the military and started to listen to punk music. i don't hate americans or america. just some of the things they do. (please, no offence intended!)

we all have to stand up for what we believe in, and i believe that in regards to a flag burning etc. is the protester showing his dis regard for the administration & the image that the US has earned itself in recent times....or his disregard for EVERYTHING that flag stands for. i believe it is just the former.


as for the NZ case of a flag burning ( it was VERY dumb, he was protesting new zealands involvement with the invasion of iraq....which was none of course. we sent engineers a bit after that ) the Govt tried to do the protester for SEDITION! it didn't stick but what surprised me was the lack of out cry from the public....it was seen as a stupid act, not particularly clever, but nor was it that disrespectful. even the Returned Services Association made only mild grumblings... because when it comes down to it no one belittles the sacrifice of war dead, no matter what the war. i think in todays climate people realised what a huge burden the military have to carry, and even if the war is unpopular (iraq) we must support the troops.

the point is, this person with the flag has something to say....where is the harm in listening to what he has to say
 
chewie_nz said:
no i haven't been to the states, i want to at some stage visit this mysterious holy grail that has such an effect on the worlds culture. but at tthis stage because of my age, my education and other factors in my life, i have not been able to travel very far out of NZ. i don't think that that makes my opinion any less valid.
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Yes it makes it far less valid. You haven't even been to Europe. It makes your view of the world extremely narrow. Once you find the time to travel, and actually stay put there for long periods of time you will know exactly what I mean.
I see this problem in Korea too. People in Korea who have never travelled abroad have no idea, not a damn clue how big the world is. They don't know ANYTHING about any culture war brewing in America, they don't know that by kicking out the US, they leave South Korea open to all sorts of power plays from sides that have traditionally tried to colonize Korea on multiple occasions.
The most inaccurate descriptions I have read about America were naturally from people who have not been to America. I know there is media etc. but they are all biased. Media tends to have their own culture as does every organization. Their own culture decides what's appropriate and not. You're not on site to see for yourself.
People always cry about how politicians are liars. Let me tell you who else are the biggest liars: the press. Remember, these guys are not relayers of the truth, they are sellers. They must sell stories and they must get something that happened and juice it up better than the other press company to make it sell even better.

Until you've actually lived somewhere other than New Zealand, unless you've even set foot on the United States, I really think your America credentials are ZIP.

If you've even lived in a place similar to America, you could perhaps compare your experiences there with that other place... as you can when you've lived in a few developing countries. You realize what they have in common and you can theorize what may be happening elsewhere... though even that doesn't beat first hand experience.

My views are a combination of training and experience and there's no beating that from thousands of miles away posting pictures of idiots who made "self apology" jpegs.

And no offense taken. I'm just simply telling you how it is. If America's in the wrong I'll tell you they're in the wrong. Making America look extra shiney good isn't in the cards for me. I simply don't care. But what I really don't like is people who don't know anything about it making comments because they heard some dude say it who heard it off some "MTV" source.

Also if it's some flag burning prick, chances are it's not worth my time listening to him.
 
BAD RELIGION
"The Defense"

Nothing comes easier than madness in the world today
Mass paranoia is a mode not a melody
Yeah I'd like to watch all thousand cable channels but there's nothing on
And my high speed connection's monitored daily by the pentagon
These things are seldom what they seem
I'm not inclined to enjoy my dreams
won't go away

No Peace and No Friends
We Trace the mortal edge with no defense
To State the obvious
This world is perilous for us
No sense and No Guide
ain't it beautiful to be alive Yeah right
I won't resign before the struggle ends
So I'll construct this sound defense

We are the prey and culture is the predator
I'm running out of time where conditions are positionnal
Shadows of a doubt cast reluctance and depravity
There's got to be a way to overcome this grim reality
Is there an option left for me
I'm not immune to despondency
There's no way

No Peace and No Friends
We Trace the mortal edge with no defense
To State the obvious
This world is perilous for us
No sense and No Guide
ain't it beautiful to be alive Yeah right
I won't resign before the struggle ends
So I'll construct this sound defense

There's a signpost on the corner
and it keeps everybody safe
We were all made in the shade
And your mother's in the kitchen
where she's patching all the cracks in the wall
We never had to care in the world

Too much to sacrifice
it's hard to recognize
Just a compromise of purely deadly alibies
It's combinational
the pressure so intense
So I'll construct this sound defense

Nothing's plainer than the madness in the world today
I must conceal myself and steal myself and break away
I seek initiatives in matters that are black and white
So I'll construct this sound defense
 
people in the city are yes, more or less different politically than rednecks and hillbilles ( sorry, dont know what to call those people that live in the hinterland, my english isnt as good as my chinese)

as you can see in the votes, most city dwellers voted for kerry because they are sick of bush, and the others living off the land voted for bush

clearly we can see why this is, bush allowed the assult gun to be allowed ( hinterlandpeople love guns), he went into war ( hinterland people are warefarelike and somewaht patroitic), and bush didnt do well withthe economy ( something the city busineses hated)

living in new york gave the the impression that new yorkers often think that bush had the conspiracy that he ordered the twin towers shotdown so he could indirectly wage war aginist islams

lol, ok, there is a kind of patroicness for city people

for example new yorkers like me think that new york is the center of usa and the rest except cities are savaged lands, we hav ethis kind of patroic feeling that new york is the best and that united states revolve around new york.
 
Chinaman, that's a extremely simplified, and very misleading post. What do you mean by "sick of Bush"? Did you know that plenty of people who voted for Bush fell into the category of "sick of Bush?"
For many, as I had friends on the Republican side, the Democrat side and even one that is in Nader's Green Party while in the US, and at the same time while this election was going on. I knew a few Republicans who didn't really *like* Bush but felt that it was better than letting the Democrats into power because they felt that the Democrats were going to illegalize their traditions while the Republicans were going to defend it.
That's what it was about.
If it was about "Who's sick of Bush?" Bush would have lost.
You even live in New York. How could you be completely oblivious to this?
Bush was wrong about Iraq, his economics... not good but remember, there was a terrorist attack in the heart of American finance and even without that, experts were predicting a slight recession due to economic patterns (though I'm not an economics expert so I can't go further into that) and they even went to war in two different countries. But they were willing to take that than risk losing Christianity.
 
Idiot elitist arrogant New Yorkers don't get it and will keep being on the wrong side of everything because they think everyone but them lives in, as you put it, the 'hinterland'. New Yorkers want to see themselves as so smart and cultured and intelligent, they buy whatever is shoved down their throats that will boost their ego, including politics. Believe it or not, people outside of New York tend to live rather normal lives, very very few americans live on farms or small towns.

Here in Dallas, I can't think of one person who has ever said, "Man, if only our city was more like New York, it's just so great there." And quite honestly, I don't know of anywhere but in the Northeast where people actually like New York, most people think of it as the Mecca of everything that is wrong with America.
 
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