Merkava vs. Challenger 2

Merkava vs. Challenger 2

  • Merkava

    Votes: 14 38.9%

  • Challenger 2

    Votes: 22 61.1%
  • Total voters
    36
prolific said:
challenger 2 for sure!! its one of the most heavily armoured tanks in the world and it looks good too--merkava looks like green poop!
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Wow, did you make your selection based on the color of the paint used on the tank you had been looking at at the time? Please for the love of god tell me that is not why or how you chose the Chellenger 2.
 
prolific said:
challenger 2 for sure!! its one of the most heavily armoured tanks in the world and it looks good too--merkava looks like green poop!
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The Merkava is equally armored or more. It has taken Saggers to the side and not been penetrated.
 
Koz said:
The Merkava is equally armored or more. It has taken Saggers to the side and not been penetrated.
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Hey Koz, I was under the impression that the Challenger was the Free World's heaviest armored modern MBT and it is for this reason that its a slower mover. The Merkava, relatively speaking, has very good mobility. Now weight ain't everything, but am I completely out of my mind or have I got the right info here??

As already stated, I'll take slightly better mobility over slightly better armor, given the tradeoff.
 
GoT, remember that higher weight does not necessarily equal better armour protection. Chobham armour is far better than the rolled homogenous armour that it replaced in spite of the fact that it weighs less. All of the tank manufacturers keep the armour thickness and protection as a closely guarded secret, so when someone says that this or that tank is better protected, it is really an educated guess.
OTOH, the Brits do know how to make good armour, their tank does weigh a lot more, so chances are it really is better protected... from certain angles, anyway.

Dean.
 
All true, but at the same time, same generation tanks are usually going to run relatively close for lbs/protection if the designers have any clue what they're doing of course. The Challenger II is trying to be the pseudo-heavy, moving slow but hopefully harder to kill. Regardless, I think that the armor sloping on the Merkava is better designed. Very very few angles to get a clean shot off at the thing and it has a very low profile for a MBT. So "from certain angles" is about exactly right.
 
godofthunder9010 said:
Hey Koz, I was under the impression that the Challenger was the Free World's heaviest armored modern MBT and it is for this reason that its a slower mover. The Merkava, relatively speaking, has very good mobility. Now weight ain't everything, but am I completely out of my mind or have I got the right info here??

As already stated, I'll take slightly better mobility over slightly better armor, given the tradeoff.
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No one can say which tank is more heavily armored. I'm just saying that statements like "the challenger is the world's most heavily armored MBT" cannot be verified and are usually patriotic sackriding. The Leo and Leclerc could be just as armored as the Challenger. All I know is that Merkavas have taken ATGMs to the side and continued fighting, Challengers cannot make this claim.
 
MK4 is an absoutely beautiful piece of work. It wouldn't be too hard to argue for it being the best MBT on the planet. The story of the Merkava is a story of development based upon Israel's many wars and experience.

This article was an interesting read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkava

Wikipedia said:
Merkava Mk 4

The Merkava Mk 4 is the latest generation in Israel's Merkava main battle tanks series, in service from 2004. It offers extra protection to the crew with more powerful and accurate fire systems.

The Merkava has improved armor on the front and sides of the tank, and even the top of the turret, making it one of the best protected tanks in the world. The armor is modular so when the tank is hit, only the damaged armor plates need replacement. The Mk 4 also has additional crew survivability features: Each tank component is designed to act as back-up armor if the main armor is penetrated. The Mk 4 has an integrated air conditioning and NBC protection system. Ammunition is stored in fire-proof canisters.
The Merkava has an advanced fire system with a new 120 mm smoothbore cannon and an advanced targeting system, giving the tank the capacity to engage and shoot down anti-tank helicopters, such as the French SA342L Gazelle anti-tank helicopters and Russian Mil Mi-24 Hind attack helicopters of the Syrian Air Force.
It also has .50 BMG (12.7 mm) coaxial machine gun (MAG Rafael) which enables the tank crew to shoot soft targets from the turret without getting out. A new generation of internal 60 mm mortar is installed. The internal machine gun and the rear door (which exists in all generation of the Merkava) have proven to be useful in urban warfare.
The Merkava has improved mobility, enabling the tank to move more easily in the Golan Heights, where terrain can limit tank movements. The new Caterpillar tracks system (abbreviated as "Mazkom" (מזקו"ם) in Hebrew: מערכת זחלים קפיצים ומרכובים - "Tracks, springs and wheels system (abbv.: TSAWS)") was improved to endure harsh ground conditions and minimize track-spreading incidents. A video system gives the driver 360 degree visibility around the tank at all times. A new 1500 horsepower diesel engine increases the speed and power of the Merkava, enabling it to develop sprints of 60 km/h.
Yet another improvement is the development of a Battle Management System (צי"ד) designed by Elbit Systems, which uses digital information (gathered by other forces such as other tanks, UAVs and the centeral command) to update planning, navigation, and briefing of crews. The Battle Management System can record data gained during the mission and transmit it live to other forces.
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I don't know of a tank that does a better job of protecting the crew in so many varied ways.
 
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The Israelis have the most tank warfare experience of any nation since WWII. They *need* to make good tanks because their survival as a nation depends on it. They cannot skimp on details like other nations.
 
godofthunder9010 said:
MK4 is an absoutely beautiful piece of work. It wouldn't be too hard to argue for it being the best MBT on the planet. The story of the Merkava is a story of development based upon Israel's many wars and experience.
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It's being constantly updated, much more so than the Challenger II, one of the reasons I voted for it. Of course the survivability of its crew is second to none as well, assuming that the armour used is of Chobham/DU quality.
 
Doppleganger said:
It's being constantly updated, much more so than the Challenger II, one of the reasons I voted for it. Of course the survivability of its crew is second to none as well, assuming that the armour used is of Chobham/DU quality.
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Don't forget that the engine is located in the front of the tank so it works as another couple of feet of protection from enemy fire.
 
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