The Other Guy
Spam King
What's NATO calling this one? Super Flanker Perhaps?
Malaysia to receive six Sukhoi-30MK fighter jets from Russia in May
chenpengke
Active member
It's easy, they want to control Malacca
F-5A
Hi dafalcon
I was just looking at Pacific Rim Flanker users and saw something about upgrading them and using them for recon aircraft. For the life of me I can find it right now. I'm sure there are recon kits for F-5s but maybe a better selection could be made for range reasons? I don't know the wing load outs for the mighty F-5 A/B/E II/III fighters maybe without weapons or small weapons loads it's doable? I always like the F-5s and A-4s aircraft overall for smaller aircraft they carry a good punch. There still seem to a pretty large number of F-5 type users still operational so I would assume there is still an upgrade market out there. Besides Canada I think the Israeli's have a F- 5 upgrade package too I think Chile used them.
Hi dafalcon
I was just looking at Pacific Rim Flanker users and saw something about upgrading them and using them for recon aircraft. For the life of me I can find it right now. I'm sure there are recon kits for F-5s but maybe a better selection could be made for range reasons? I don't know the wing load outs for the mighty F-5 A/B/E II/III fighters maybe without weapons or small weapons loads it's doable? I always like the F-5s and A-4s aircraft overall for smaller aircraft they carry a good punch. There still seem to a pretty large number of F-5 type users still operational so I would assume there is still an upgrade market out there. Besides Canada I think the Israeli's have a F- 5 upgrade package too I think Chile used them.
More F-5
Four other web pages I found on this topic state the Flankers are replacing the F-5As. I did a little more hunting and still can't find that link I had sorry. Got caught on F-5s a little now and found another major F-5 user Brazil. Northrop Grumman awarded OBOGS contract for Embracer’s F-5BR aircraft.Just talked with a guy I know from Brazil and he told me that Brazil’s F-5s might be one of the worlds most advances models and are equipped with datalinks. He wrote Brazil has joined five other countries in the world that use datalinks now and that they even beat a few French Mirage 2000s in mock combat. I cannot back that up with a link and am only stating what he wrote me nor do I know how many countries use datalinks. I was kind of hoping somebody would help with that. In simple terms the little I understand about datalinks would be one fighter has there radar on while a second has there’s off. The second aircraft thus becomes the shooter and the first aircraft using the datalinks passes the target info to the shooter who takes the shot. The cool part the target might see the first aircraft with there radar on 80 miles or more away while the shooter can be a lot closer. Gives the bad guy or the enemy less time to react, please correct me if I got any part of this wrong. I assume the datalinks users would be US, England, Russia, France, Israel, and Brazil. I would guess that China might be part of this club as well or soon to be.
Four other web pages I found on this topic state the Flankers are replacing the F-5As. I did a little more hunting and still can't find that link I had sorry. Got caught on F-5s a little now and found another major F-5 user Brazil. Northrop Grumman awarded OBOGS contract for Embracer’s F-5BR aircraft.Just talked with a guy I know from Brazil and he told me that Brazil’s F-5s might be one of the worlds most advances models and are equipped with datalinks. He wrote Brazil has joined five other countries in the world that use datalinks now and that they even beat a few French Mirage 2000s in mock combat. I cannot back that up with a link and am only stating what he wrote me nor do I know how many countries use datalinks. I was kind of hoping somebody would help with that. In simple terms the little I understand about datalinks would be one fighter has there radar on while a second has there’s off. The second aircraft thus becomes the shooter and the first aircraft using the datalinks passes the target info to the shooter who takes the shot. The cool part the target might see the first aircraft with there radar on 80 miles or more away while the shooter can be a lot closer. Gives the bad guy or the enemy less time to react, please correct me if I got any part of this wrong. I assume the datalinks users would be US, England, Russia, France, Israel, and Brazil. I would guess that China might be part of this club as well or soon to be.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
Flankers are a good choice. Not much of a gunfighter, but, that 30 mm cannon , with its 150 rounds, can knock holes in an enemy with ease. But, they also make a Perfect Long Range Patrol Aircraft, with exceptional maneuverability. Whether replacing, or working in concert with the F 5s. They are designed to intercept, and make as many problems as possible for western fighter strike groups. Although designed in another era. With a few modifications, a modern day Su 30, with a skilled pilot and ground crew will overcome most air threats.
Sea, SAMS, and AAA survivability. Will rely on the Pilot's awareness, and skills in evasion, as well as military intelligence. The fighter aircraft itself is all part of a bigger gamble, of which man kind calls, modern warfare.
Sea, SAMS, and AAA survivability. Will rely on the Pilot's awareness, and skills in evasion, as well as military intelligence. The fighter aircraft itself is all part of a bigger gamble, of which man kind calls, modern warfare.
maneuverability
I think the Flankers low speed maneuverability from what I've read might be it's biggest asset as fighter. I would like to hear from pilots but I think going up against it's missiles would be the choice then going guns. I thought Hornet, Fulcrum, and for a large aircraft Flanker might get a nose on you faster then most fighters. Even Viper pilots on f16net seem to give Hornets a little respect when going slow. I've read tons of Mig-29 VS. F-16 thread with mixed results on who better at who. A F-15 pilot told me that no fighter does everything the best and the key in staying in your aircraft strengths and staying out of your enemies. Maybe for a lack of chance but I think the Flanker is not proven as a striker like the F-15E is. On paper it carries a large load has great range and seems to be able to use a large selection of weapons just not proven. I can't seem to find anything on it's attack or strike capabilities in real life. Even training against other countries it always seems to be in the fighter role. If anybody can provide me any any data on real life usage in a strike role please do, link, book, anything. Reading about China Flankers and it seems there producing a J-11B which is more of striker/attack model compared to the other types there bought from Russia or made from kits. There must be a reason for this I always thought it's software thing to drop LGB and launch anti-ship missiles. I know targets have to be marked and found but aren't special pods made for this? Couldn't there Su-27 SK, MMK, Flankers be upgrade for less then producing a different type? Or is they just they wanted to produce there own?
I think the Flankers low speed maneuverability from what I've read might be it's biggest asset as fighter. I would like to hear from pilots but I think going up against it's missiles would be the choice then going guns. I thought Hornet, Fulcrum, and for a large aircraft Flanker might get a nose on you faster then most fighters. Even Viper pilots on f16net seem to give Hornets a little respect when going slow. I've read tons of Mig-29 VS. F-16 thread with mixed results on who better at who. A F-15 pilot told me that no fighter does everything the best and the key in staying in your aircraft strengths and staying out of your enemies. Maybe for a lack of chance but I think the Flanker is not proven as a striker like the F-15E is. On paper it carries a large load has great range and seems to be able to use a large selection of weapons just not proven. I can't seem to find anything on it's attack or strike capabilities in real life. Even training against other countries it always seems to be in the fighter role. If anybody can provide me any any data on real life usage in a strike role please do, link, book, anything. Reading about China Flankers and it seems there producing a J-11B which is more of striker/attack model compared to the other types there bought from Russia or made from kits. There must be a reason for this I always thought it's software thing to drop LGB and launch anti-ship missiles. I know targets have to be marked and found but aren't special pods made for this? Couldn't there Su-27 SK, MMK, Flankers be upgrade for less then producing a different type? Or is they just they wanted to produce there own?
data link
do you know any military warfare companies that use the rf data links? can you list some?
do you know any military warfare companies that use the rf data links? can you list some?
Datalink
No I don't I'm very weak in datalink's and what they can do. The way I describe it is kind of my level on the subject really. I can imagine in the future unmanned aircraft going into a hot spot finding targets and then datalinking the info on a target to a weapons platform a hundred or two hundred away. I'm sure if you hunt around the net you'll find more information on the subject. I think it's a cool field and has a future that's for sure. Do you know about more about the subject?
No I don't I'm very weak in datalink's and what they can do. The way I describe it is kind of my level on the subject really. I can imagine in the future unmanned aircraft going into a hot spot finding targets and then datalinking the info on a target to a weapons platform a hundred or two hundred away. I'm sure if you hunt around the net you'll find more information on the subject. I think it's a cool field and has a future that's for sure. Do you know about more about the subject?
Infern0
Banned
sorry
but i just had to pick this bit out..... as someone who has recently travelled through both Indonesia and Malaysia....i can say with complete certanty that it is Indonesia who posses the more radical Muslim population.
Indonesia is the home of jamahl islamia, the Muslim rebels in banda arche etc etc.
whereas Malaysia is (to my eyes at least) a very modern, open and liberal Islamic state.
to this day malaysia is finding infiltration teams from indonesia on the wrong side of the border, and you're right, the bad blood does go back to the very brief time where they were part of the same coalition of countries. if my memory serves, the malaysian leader from that time has just released his memoirs from that extremely tense time (malayan emergency onwards), but for the life of me i can find it now.,
if it does come to a shooting war it will be an EXTREMELY messy one, tight naval straits, major airpower tussles, and jungle warfare island hopping....and in that, the side that shuts down the shipping, wins.
bulldogg
Milforum's Bouncer
Rather than derail this thread...
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/radical-muslim-tangos-se-asia-t39595.html#post324619
http://www.military-quotes.com/forum/radical-muslim-tangos-se-asia-t39595.html#post324619
Last edited:
Malaysia and Indonesia AF questions
First question:
I’m looking for any information on an air force training exercise involving Malaysia or Indonesia and Australia. Basically I want to learn more about there air force overall and I’m interested in reading about opinions on there air force and / or aircraft.
Second question:
I notice Malaysia and Indonesia using mainly US and Russian types with some England made Hawks mixed in. I wanted to know did France ever try to push the Mirage F1 or Mirage 2000 series in this region.
Thanks in advance
First question:
I’m looking for any information on an air force training exercise involving Malaysia or Indonesia and Australia. Basically I want to learn more about there air force overall and I’m interested in reading about opinions on there air force and / or aircraft.
Second question:
I notice Malaysia and Indonesia using mainly US and Russian types with some England made Hawks mixed in. I wanted to know did France ever try to push the Mirage F1 or Mirage 2000 series in this region.
Thanks in advance
First two Su-30 MKM are assigned to the 11th SQ.
I though two of these fighters were already delivered?
KUALA LUMPUR: The Royal Malaysian Air Force’s latest squadron got its first aircraft on Tuesday when two Sukhoi Su-30MKM Flanker fighter jets were delivered.
The Russian-made aircraft were onboard an Antonov An-124-100 cargo aircraft, which landed at the Gong Kedak air base in Kelantan at 6.30pm.
An RMAF spokesman said two more aircraft were scheduled to arrive later this year.
The four will be on display at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition in December.
The full squadron of 18 aircraft, procured in a deal estimated at US$900 million (RM3.08 billion), would be in operation by the end of next year.
The aircraft will form the RMAF’s 11th Squadron, to be based in Gong Kedak, the air force’s newest base.
The delivery of the two aircraft came while Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi was in Moscow meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, on his first official visit to that country since becoming prime minister.
The aircraft were made at the Irkutsk aviation plant of the Irkut Corporation and are currently being assembled and inspected.
The two aircraft were formally handed over to RMAF chief Gen Tan Sri Azizan Ariffin in a roll-out ceremony at the plant earlier this year.
The Su-30MKM (an abbreviation which stands for modernised, commercial, Malaysia) is an advanced modification of the widely known multifunctional fighter jet, Su-30MKK.
However, the Malaysian version of the fighter jet significantly differs from the prototype in various systems.
Highly-manoeuvrable, the Su-30MKI version of the jet was also ordered by the Indian Air Force.
The aircraft will significantly beef up the RMAF’s air defence capabilities as the squadron joins the existing fleet of Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29N Fulcrum, Boeing F/A-18D Hornet and BAE Systems Hawk 108 and 208 fighters.
The Fulcrums, like the Flankers, are made in Russia, while the Hornets and Hawks are American and British.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Thursday/National/20070621075734/Article/index_html
I though two of these fighters were already delivered?
KUALA LUMPUR: The Royal Malaysian Air Force’s latest squadron got its first aircraft on Tuesday when two Sukhoi Su-30MKM Flanker fighter jets were delivered.
The Russian-made aircraft were onboard an Antonov An-124-100 cargo aircraft, which landed at the Gong Kedak air base in Kelantan at 6.30pm.
An RMAF spokesman said two more aircraft were scheduled to arrive later this year.
The four will be on display at the Langkawi International Maritime and Aerospace exhibition in December.
The full squadron of 18 aircraft, procured in a deal estimated at US$900 million (RM3.08 billion), would be in operation by the end of next year.
The aircraft will form the RMAF’s 11th Squadron, to be based in Gong Kedak, the air force’s newest base.
The delivery of the two aircraft came while Datuk Seri Abdullah Ahmad Badawi was in Moscow meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin, on his first official visit to that country since becoming prime minister.
The aircraft were made at the Irkutsk aviation plant of the Irkut Corporation and are currently being assembled and inspected.
The two aircraft were formally handed over to RMAF chief Gen Tan Sri Azizan Ariffin in a roll-out ceremony at the plant earlier this year.
The Su-30MKM (an abbreviation which stands for modernised, commercial, Malaysia) is an advanced modification of the widely known multifunctional fighter jet, Su-30MKK.
However, the Malaysian version of the fighter jet significantly differs from the prototype in various systems.
Highly-manoeuvrable, the Su-30MKI version of the jet was also ordered by the Indian Air Force.
The aircraft will significantly beef up the RMAF’s air defence capabilities as the squadron joins the existing fleet of Mikoyan-Gurevich MiG-29N Fulcrum, Boeing F/A-18D Hornet and BAE Systems Hawk 108 and 208 fighters.
The Fulcrums, like the Flankers, are made in Russia, while the Hornets and Hawks are American and British.
http://www.nst.com.my/Current_News/NST/Thursday/National/20070621075734/Article/index_html
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
First of the products arrived finally? Does any one know what kind of weapon systems they will employ? Will they employ direct shipments of Russian made air to air ordinance? Or like western contracts, less sophisticated versions of the ordinance?
The Su 30MK, is designed for strikes against naval targets, like U.S. carrier strike force. (Not calling Malaysia a enemy) They carry the traditional when flying in under the Red Star. A 30mm cannon, which would require highly trained crews to pilot them. Cause, those aren't many rounds, but, they are big, and will pack a punch.
Along with a wide array of air to air ordinance. Which, some may be viewed as, a little behind in the air to air weapons arena. But, they still are lethal in the hands of a skilled crew.
Armaments
1. Guns On board 30mm gun with 150 rds
2. Guided air-to-air missiles
R-27R1(ER1) R-27T1(ET1) R-27P(EP) R-73E RVV-AYe
3. Guided air-to-surface missiles
Kh-59ME Kh-31A, Kh-31P Kh-29T(TYe), Kh-29L
4. Guided bomb units
KAB-500KR, KAB-500OD KAB-1500KR, KAB-1500L
5. Air bombsFAB-500T BETAB-500ShP ODAB-500PM OFAB-250-270 OFAB-100-120 P-50T Incendiary bombs(napalm filled)
6. Cluster bombs RBK-500 SPBE-D
7. Unguided missiles
S-8KOM, S-8OM, S-8BM S-13T, S-13OF S-25OFM-PU
8. External fuel tanks
N/a
9. Suspension points12 (hard pionts)
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su30mk/arms/
I wonder if the air to air ordinance will employ the same semi active radar tracking systems as the Russian used ordinance?
The Su 30MK, is designed for strikes against naval targets, like U.S. carrier strike force. (Not calling Malaysia a enemy) They carry the traditional when flying in under the Red Star. A 30mm cannon, which would require highly trained crews to pilot them. Cause, those aren't many rounds, but, they are big, and will pack a punch.
Along with a wide array of air to air ordinance. Which, some may be viewed as, a little behind in the air to air weapons arena. But, they still are lethal in the hands of a skilled crew.
Armaments
1. Guns On board 30mm gun with 150 rds
2. Guided air-to-air missiles
R-27R1(ER1) R-27T1(ET1) R-27P(EP) R-73E RVV-AYe
3. Guided air-to-surface missiles
Kh-59ME Kh-31A, Kh-31P Kh-29T(TYe), Kh-29L
4. Guided bomb units
KAB-500KR, KAB-500OD KAB-1500KR, KAB-1500L
5. Air bombsFAB-500T BETAB-500ShP ODAB-500PM OFAB-250-270 OFAB-100-120 P-50T Incendiary bombs(napalm filled)
6. Cluster bombs RBK-500 SPBE-D
7. Unguided missiles
S-8KOM, S-8OM, S-8BM S-13T, S-13OF S-25OFM-PU
8. External fuel tanks
N/a
9. Suspension points12 (hard pionts)
http://www.sukhoi.org/eng/planes/military/su30mk/arms/
I wonder if the air to air ordinance will employ the same semi active radar tracking systems as the Russian used ordinance?
Soild platform
Hi Sukio
I don't think it would be fair to say the Su-30MKM was designed to strike naval targets but has the capabilities to do so. It's a exceptional maneuverability fighter with tons of power and good range. Reading about radar guided missiles on different sites I do rate American missile better or at least battle proven but Russia AA-11 (IR type) seems to have a good rep from what I've read about it. India been flying Flankers for many years and must have highly trained crews. I personnel believe if you put American trained pilots or western based trained pilots in this aircraft many would change there views on Flankers. Flankers are like other fighter too in a sense that no fighter (leaving out the F-22) does everything the best. Put an AESA radar in it and give it radar missiles with a little better range and/or ie work better and in certain types of air combat Flankers would be nasty. I wish a F-15 pilot could explain better but like an F-15 I assume it could use it's brute power to get into good positions to take shots and force the fight. Another thing I see with Flankers and larger fighters like F-14s is the amount of fuel they carry. It must be an advantage because you could pick when to enter or leave a fight, not every fighter has that option. Flankers like all fighters must have there weaknesses too and I'm sure US F-15 pilots and others are highly trained to take advantage of this as well. I think good training is the key without it even lesser missed match aircraft can beat for more advance aircraft.
Hi Sukio
I don't think it would be fair to say the Su-30MKM was designed to strike naval targets but has the capabilities to do so. It's a exceptional maneuverability fighter with tons of power and good range. Reading about radar guided missiles on different sites I do rate American missile better or at least battle proven but Russia AA-11 (IR type) seems to have a good rep from what I've read about it. India been flying Flankers for many years and must have highly trained crews. I personnel believe if you put American trained pilots or western based trained pilots in this aircraft many would change there views on Flankers. Flankers are like other fighter too in a sense that no fighter (leaving out the F-22) does everything the best. Put an AESA radar in it and give it radar missiles with a little better range and/or ie work better and in certain types of air combat Flankers would be nasty. I wish a F-15 pilot could explain better but like an F-15 I assume it could use it's brute power to get into good positions to take shots and force the fight. Another thing I see with Flankers and larger fighters like F-14s is the amount of fuel they carry. It must be an advantage because you could pick when to enter or leave a fight, not every fighter has that option. Flankers like all fighters must have there weaknesses too and I'm sure US F-15 pilots and others are highly trained to take advantage of this as well. I think good training is the key without it even lesser missed match aircraft can beat for more advance aircraft.
Yossarian
Forum Resistance Leader
I'm not calling the Su 30 Flanker variant a bad design, no. But, it is very well equipped, almost to the point of a Su 35. And, will the ability to updated easily. They do rival F 15s in many aspects. They are also fitted for air superiorly. But, U.S. pilots may have some trouble flying it, since it is but from a nation that uses entirely the metric system. But, this can be disproved a little, since the U.S. uses a captured Mig 29 for training of new pilot's, having U.S. pilot flying as the "bad guys".
Flankers, are some best fighters in the 4Th generation of military fighter/strike aircraft. And I'm pretty sure that Malaysia will get her money's worth. They hold ordinance for any occasion. Even though some of the original ordinance, is only daylight TV guided, they can be updated. The Su 30 of any model, holds low speed maneuverability that only the F/A 22A can match from the U.S.
Flankers, are some best fighters in the 4Th generation of military fighter/strike aircraft. And I'm pretty sure that Malaysia will get her money's worth. They hold ordinance for any occasion. Even though some of the original ordinance, is only daylight TV guided, they can be updated. The Su 30 of any model, holds low speed maneuverability that only the F/A 22A can match from the U.S.
Good design
Hi Sukio
Unless the Su-35 receives funding and finds a buyer it might turn into vapor wear like many Russian projects. On paper its looks great but the Su-30 is very real thus the reason the Indians haven't went down the Su-35 path I think. The reason I mention US pilots or western trained pilots is the level of training received. The training equipment used like Sims and other resources aren't always available Russian or other Flanker personnel in other countries. Training is so important like if you compare the US, Israel, England, and say France, you could put pilots in Russian or even Chinese made aircraft and they would do well. Its the level of training and learning to get the most out of the aircraft and equipment that makes certain pilots better then others, and that's works the same way with different air forces too. Hope I made sense in trying to explain myself.
Hi Sukio
Unless the Su-35 receives funding and finds a buyer it might turn into vapor wear like many Russian projects. On paper its looks great but the Su-30 is very real thus the reason the Indians haven't went down the Su-35 path I think. The reason I mention US pilots or western trained pilots is the level of training received. The training equipment used like Sims and other resources aren't always available Russian or other Flanker personnel in other countries. Training is so important like if you compare the US, Israel, England, and say France, you could put pilots in Russian or even Chinese made aircraft and they would do well. Its the level of training and learning to get the most out of the aircraft and equipment that makes certain pilots better then others, and that's works the same way with different air forces too. Hope I made sense in trying to explain myself.