Light Infantry vs. Mechanized Infantry

Haha, yeah sure, if the work is to kill random people from a safe position... UAVs are the way to go.

I think that it's time to be tough and to grow some balls... Get on the field to do the dirty job and face the enemy. To look at him in the eyes and to tell the bad guys that we wont take **** from anyone...

I was told that honest people can go further than criminals and wrong doers... That the criminal who isnt fighting for ideals would give up before the honest man who is fighting for principles...

I love this theory myself...
 
When dealing with people like the Taliban, we need to send powerful messages.

I invite you guys to see the documentary "Restrepo".

I like the part where the soldiers decided to move out and to fortify a position in the area where most the attacks come from...

Doing this kind of actions, they send a powerful message to their enemies... And the message isnt the old "my guns are bigger than yours." who also says "I'm a coward, and I wont fight you if I dont find a confortable and safe environment."
 
LeMask said:
Haha, yeah sure, if the work is to kill random people from a safe position... UAVs are the way to go.

I think that it's time to be tough and to grow some balls... Get on the field to do the dirty job and face the enemy. To look at him in the eyes and to tell the bad guys that we wont take **** from anyone...

I was told that honest people can go further than criminals and wrong doers... That the criminal who isnt fighting for ideals would give up before the honest man who is fighting for principles...

I love this theory myself...
Click to expand...

Really?
The Recruiting Station awaits your arrival then Stud.

Put up or Shut up.
 
LeMask said:
Haha, yeah sure, if the work is to kill random people from a safe position... UAVs are the way to go.

I think that it's time to be tough and to grow some balls... Get on the field to do the dirty job and face the enemy. To look at him in the eyes and to tell the bad guys that we wont take **** from anyone...

I was told that honest people can go further than criminals and wrong doers... That the criminal who isnt fighting for ideals would give up before the honest man who is fighting for principles...

I love this theory myself...
Click to expand...

Let me invite you to take a tour of duty in Afghanistan as an infantryman.

I can offer you the chance to kill Taliban almost face to face. You get the opportunity to see how death looks like and specifically how it smells. If you are lucky you might also see your buddies blown up by an IED and then have to pick up body parts of the friend you've just shared your everyday live with. If you want to try something really fun, try to get hit by a bullet so you can experience the special feeling of apathy and fear.

Welcome to my world.

As long as you walk around with your little gay balls and will like to teach us about being in combat, as you have no idea about, then you can stick your stupid comments up where the sun don´t shine.
NOW P-OFF.
 
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I dont work for corrupt governments... I dont want to share the uniform of people I dont know and trust... And I dont wear flags on my uniform...

And I have a lot of problems with authority, I dont take orders and I punch people in the face when they bark at me...

But I'm serious. We forgot a lot of important aspects of human nature, like the tribal instinct as an example...
What we call collateral damage can have big effects in a society ruled with a tribal instinct... You kill an individual "by mistake"... And you anger the whole tribe, not just the family...

And the religious aspect is interesting too. The fact that they are ready to die for their cause proves somehow (at least for them) that their cause is true...
They really believe that if they die fighting the infidel... They will go to heaven. While the infidel is hiding and fearing death, because (maybe) he fears to go to hell...

it's just a theory on the explanation... I never questioned a Taliban to know that...

GHR, you are silly and close minded...

I'm not teaching you s***... You are stuck in a school of thought...

And by the way, you always get emotional... You want me to pet you in the back and tell you what you want to hear sweetheart?

So I will explain it in simple words... With a LOT of exaggeration so your simple mind might understand...

If you send professional soldiers, with impossible to destroy armored vehicles... High tech stuff...

You will kill all your enemies. But the world will only see persecution of the poor. The rich country slaughtering poor people. Rich cowards wasting brave poor people. Even if you are the bravest man on the planet, they will still call you a coward...
And even if you lose your closest friend on the battlefield, the world will still look at the hundreds of enemy combatants you killed, even if they are evil bastard, even if they are Nazis... They are still the one losing more than you in the fight, and they will get support for that...

But if you send unprepared kids with sticks against machine guns... You will be a complete idiot from a military point of view... But even in this situation there will be some idiots to say "These guys are heroes."

The huge gap between the rich western world and the other poor countries can be seen in the battlefield... And this throws discredit on their efforts. So even with the best weapons and the best warrior skills... wars will be lost...

And wth are you so on the defensive? Are you mad against me because I'm not a soldier? What the hell is your problem?
 
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Sorry to break into the debate.

LeMask, I'm afraid you are your own biggest problem. You said:I have a lot of problems with authority, I dont take orders and I punch people in the face when they bark at me...

It is an antisocial behavior that you can only have here on the internet because nobody can reach you. Had you stood face to face with one of the guys here, who knows about war from own experience, then I do not think you had survived. I do not know how much you even realize it, but you are really very disrespectful to those who have experienced these things. You are on a military forum so please be more humble towards the people here who are or have been soldiers. I'm not saying that you should not have an opinion on military issues but however, do not contradict those who know and who have been there themselves. It is a normal polite way to behave.

Now I will not be GHR's lawyer, but I understand why he shows his emotions in his replies. I've talked a lot with him and have heard some of his story just as I have read some of the books that have been published in Denmark about our soldiers in war. GHR and his comrades have described some of their experiences in these books. It's not like a video game or a war movie - death is not as sterile as people think!

Again, sorry that I broke in and that I almost assume the role as moderator, it was not my intention. But there are almost no threads that do not end in chaos. Can we not try to be a little more serious and be adult enough to see when we are heading into something we are not entirely sure of.

Just my opinion.
And of course, Happy New Year everyone.
 
Seehund, they are men, just men... All these names, uniforms etc... They dont change much. I'm not discussing their skills or calling them lyers about their experiences...

And I strongly believe that if you let "fear" change your behavior... Well, damn man, you are a savage... Civilized men are proud and they dont get bullied by anyone.

And I dont agree with you, I didnt disrespect anyone. Of course, i dont share their political views, like these views on authority and government, authority in particular (I dont question some forms of authority)... But that's about it. Why are you speaking about disrespect?

Of course, I dont kiss ass... In the US they worship their military for some cultural reasons... In Western countries they are somehow proud of their men in uniforms. And it's perfectly my right to not share this "feeling" and to treat them like I do with everybody...

If treating them like normal people is a form of disrespect, then yeah, I'm guilty.

Now, I'm aware that the Western culture is pushing us to think in a direction... And I'm against that. I say let's think outside the box. I'm against this lack of imagination.

I know how politics work. Their field is very well defined. They care about public opinion, about money, about the stories in the media etc...
The military mind works in the same fashion, they count success with a body count, they do statistics... etc...

It's the Western mindset... Over specialization, everything is a math problem... Everyone is looking at his own field. And I strongly believe that this way of thinking is a good recipe for failure.

So yeah, I will contradict. I will ask a very skilled military genius, and ask him if he prefers light infantry or mechnized infantry... He will pull some complex theories to explain combined arms theories, the advantages of technology... He will tell me that an LAV can have 12 billion percent more firepower than a single rifleman... and yada yada yada...

Then I will tell him, you are right. But my dog doesnt like armored vehicle, they are scary... He prefers to play with a human being.

Why? Oh... why, why... What a question... I dont know, because I dont like this situation... Where we spend enough money to solve world poverty to send a few thousand people to some poor country... To see the war last for years with no real results... And to see the soldiers on the field complaining about not having enough men to do the job right...
 
LeMask
It seems as if it is a principle with you that you will not understand what is being said to you.

Yes they are men, but they are men with a very special job that requires something very special. They are the men, and women not to forget, that we as a society asks to kill in our name and it makes them something special. Okay one can think about war and politics what they want but they are the ones who have taken a task that could cost them their lives - they are literally fighting for their beliefs. And that's what you do not respect. I'll be honest with you; you're talking about being proud and being a man, well then, be a man and admit when you're wrong and respect their profession.

I only say this as a friend, that maybe you should think about what kind of signals you send and then people would perhaps no longer say STFU to you.

Now we have come completely out of topic so I will stop here.

 
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LeMask said:
I dont work for corrupt governments... I dont want to share the uniform of people I dont know and trust... And I dont wear flags on my uniform...

Go figure, and you have all the answers for those who do and have, corrupt? Uh huh call it what is you think your smarter than anyone who does. You have no concept of committment.

And I have a lot of problems with authority, I dont take orders and I punch people in the face when they bark at me...
Right you're a tough guy huh?

But I'm serious. We forgot a lot of important aspects of human nature, like the tribal instinct as an example...
What we call collateral damage can have big effects in a society ruled with a tribal instinct... You kill an individual "by mistake"... And you anger the whole tribe, not just the family...

Blah blah blah blah. Nice theory what ya gonna do with it. Is your tribal name "Little Wiener?"

And the religious aspect is interesting too. The fact that they are ready to die for their cause proves somehow (at least for them) that their cause is true...
They really believe that if they die fighting the infidel... They will go to heaven. While the infidel is hiding and fearing death, because (maybe) he fears to go to hell...

No ****? They think they are fighting the infidel? Really? For Real? Where did decipher that info ya schmuck? They think Allah will smile on them in paradise your a freakin fount of dated damned intel.
it's just a theory on the explanation... I never questioned a Taliban to know that...

GHR, you are silly and close minded...

And your stupid ass continues to hold forth about crap you know nothing about and will know nothing about. No one cares what you have freakin read or decided in your safe cozzy little world. Video games aren't combat Son.

I'm not teaching you s***... You are stuck in a school of thought...

Massive freakin understatement you little stain.

And by the way, you always get emotional... You want me to pet you in the back and tell you what you want to hear sweetheart?

Best you shut Pie Hole Boy. I weary of you quickly.

So I will explain it in simple words... With a LOT of exaggeration so your simple mind might understand...

You're Ass wouldn't make a pimple on POG's ass so shut up.

If you send professional soldiers, with impossible to destroy armored vehicles... High tech stuff...

No such freakin thing ya damn Retard.

You will kill all your enemies. But the world will only see persecution of the poor. The rich country slaughtering poor people. Rich cowards wasting brave poor people. Even if you are the bravest man on the planet, they will still call you a coward...
And even if you lose your closest friend on the battlefield, the world will still look at the hundreds of enemy combatants you killed, even if they are evil bastard, even if they are Nazis... They are still the one losing more than you in the fight, and they will get support for that...

Shut Up. I'm telling you right now for the last freakin time. Disrespect one more service member or veteran and will shake you right the freak out Hot Rod.
But if you send unprepared kids with sticks against machine guns... You will be a complete idiot from a military point of view... But even in this situation there will be some idiots to say "These guys are heroes."

The huge gap between the rich western world and the other poor countries can be seen in the battlefield... And this throws discredit on their efforts. So even with the best weapons and the best warrior skills... wars will be lost...

And wth are you so on the defensive? Are you mad against me because I'm not a soldier? What the hell is your problem?
Click to expand...

Better you listen and shut up.

You are not even a wannabe. You are never freakin will be.

You rate nothing here. No respect, no soap box, no free rien.

STFU.
 
03USMC, you dont understand much... The world isnt revolving around me, why do you focus so much on me?

For the last time:
I have my principles in life, and you have yours. For you, it's okay to work for a government, for you it's okay to join a brotherhood of men and wear their uniform and share their reputation... For me, it's not okay. Government hold so much power that corruption is always very close...

War is controled violence. **** happens in a war. And I'm fine with violence, I'm rather speaking about war crimes, human mistakes etc...

And I dont believe that these "brotherhoods", call them units, armies or whatever, really care about cleaning their ranks from the "bad apples"... They focus on doing their job. And if it means to keep some freaks fighting, they will do so...

Their purpose is to get the job done and to clean their reputation by any means necessary... And sometimes by using means that arent noble at all, like hiding the truth, putting pressure on journalists etc etc...

I cant work for a bank, and you think I would join a big machine like the military? You are out of your mind... I would never do such a thing.

Know what? I'm a total coward. I fear for my soul, I'm scared shitless for my soul even if I dont believe in god. I would rather throw my life rather than to risk my soul. I would rather go to war alone than to join a group of strong men, if I dont trust them and know exactly who they are working for and what they are doing... Even if my chances of survival would have been much better.

Now, can we please drop the name calling? The coward BS, the video game BS too?

and 03, I know you were shocked by the last time I "quoted" somehow a video game... But you are not talking to someone who is confusing reality with video games... Just drop it for christ sake.

As civilians, we dont know much about war, and sometimes video games and movies are the best we got to "discover" a new concept... For me, it was the idea of plates under bullet proof vests to improve protection. And I understood from a video game that different plates had different properties following the used material (kevlar or ceramic etc...)... It was true in a video game, and true in reality...

So yes, I learned something from a video game, and it was true... I took time to read about it on the Internet. Video games arent 100% BS...

They train pilots and tank crew and even soldiers nowadays in simulators... And what are these simulators? They are sophisticated video games... etc...

You dont like me for some reason, I dont like you because you are being a jerk... But drop the video games issue... I can handle diverging view points, I can manage a little bitchiness from your part... Even the name calling, but not this random name calling...

And you dont even get exageration... OMG, I know that there is no all powerful armored vehicule...

It is a normal exercice in LOGIC practice. You bring some crazy theories, impossible theories...

Like If I told you, let's say that you have a time machine, and that you can send troops and armored vehicules to, I dont know, medieval Europe to build democracy...

How would you do it? Send Abrams and MBTs... Or send tons of troops? The Abrams and MBTs are good for destroying, but to turn medieval Europe into a democracy, you dont need a destruction power, but a huge construction capability... And centurius of work on mindsets...

Oh yeah, we dont have medieval Europe, but we do have Afghanistan... Same properties, just make it smaller and replace bows and arrows and other swords with crappy Aks and outdated Soviet/Chinese equipment...

We are so so obsessed by out ability to build powerful weapons that we cant see the world without using them... This is the problem.

We are at war against human stupidity. Crime, terrorism, religious extremism... etc etc... We cant use rare resources to fight that... We will run out.

Our military power is based on our industrial power, and this one is fueled by world finances and cheap energy... Both these things wont last for long maybe 50 years maximum... And our war effort will collapse sooner, because terrorism is here for eternity.

We need to put some pure human power and human will on the field... this is the part where we are the weakest. We went so far in the specialization school, trying to do everything with a few men... Then, we finish with small ridiculous armies capable of destroying the whole country... But unable to build a peace or not even to get some respect from the enemy...
 
This is a bit out of the topic in this thread. Can you elaborate further about the pure human power and the human will in a more practical approach to solve the problem.

I am a civilian too, I do not use games and movies to understand the nature of the war. The best way is to listen to the soldiers/marines. They have been there. However, as a civilians, we will never understand it.

Actually, the military devolopment since the 9/11, has changed a bit. General Prendergast (spelling) changed the doctrine first in Iraq then later in Afghanistan to reduce the civilian casualties, it seems to work.

The people wearing the uniforms, they have a really difficult job. The enemy emerge and disappear again. The only thing which seperate them from the local population is the weapon, an AK-47. when they drop it they are civilians again. The asymmetric war is different from the symmetric war. The operations in Afghanistan will take a very long time.


To the active and ex-service men on this forum. I want you to do something. Write down your experiences, like a diary. Perhaps something to tell your kids and grandkids later, even to tell us who never been there.

Back to the infantry now? I said it earlier in this thread. I prefer both. They are good for different purposes. They both belong to the armed forces. To lift them out from the context can be problematic, but without the infantry, regardless if they are light or mech, we cannot do anything.

G
 
What the hell has happened to this thread...

You read the first post and the title and would think, "okay it's a simple do you like this or that post"

Then you scroll down to here...
 
I was trying to make the debate richer by discussing the mindset behind the choices...

If you say that the advantage of mechanized infantry is firepower and survivability... You think that firepower and survivability are an actual advantage. And that is a philosophical choice.

We are discussing this philosophical choice in its roots.

And it's important, in particular in our era, where we lose a few men in war and give up... While in more ancient eras, we were used to lose thousands of people...
 
Yossarian said:
What the hell has happened to this thread...

You read the first post and the title and would think, "okay it's a simple do you like this or that post"

Then you scroll down to here...
Click to expand...


It went...it does not matter perhaps. Shall we continue with what we think about the future for the light and the mech infantry? I think these small UAVs will be a part of the infantry, for surveillance. Perhaps even at the platoon level for both light and mech.

G
 
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