Iowa Supreme Court Overturns Gay Marriage Ban

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That is incorrect. There are laws in every single state that dictate the stipulations of the marriage contract: you may not marry a relative, you may not marry underage, and etc.

Let's not fill the thread with falsehoods. If you don't know, ask. If you think you know, research. If you're sure you do know, double check.
And I've completely justified the only two examples you care to site. Any more laws you'd care to toss into the picture?


What part of Constitutionally protected right are you not getting? I have no right to get married. I do have a right to firearms. Do they not teach the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in school any more?
What if the government were to tell you that because you picked a certain type of car, home, or school system that you could no longer get married? If you made any type of choice and the government told you you couldn't do something because of it, you'd be pissed as a hornet's nest, wouldn't you? Because the government has NO RIGHT to interfere with your personal life. Right? So I ask you, what the hell is the difference? You still have yet to tell me how marriage is so public........

Regardless, marriage is a STATE issue, not a federal one. State law is and should be the will of the people that reside within that state. While that is still government per se, it is not on the level of government that is firearms or any other Constitutional issue.
But marriage is NOT public matter!!! Marriage is between two people and whatever god you believe in! I have absolutely no right or privilege to say who should and shouldn't get married, and neither do you! It's not your business, so stay the hell out of it...
Good LORD, man! You need a refund for your tuition, brother.

It wasn't a Georgia cracker. It was a Kentucky cracker. His name was Abraham Lincoln. And before you call my ability to understand you into question - yes, of course the blacks were vocal about their equality. But it was a WHITE man -- many of them, actually -- that knew it was immoral; they didn't need someone to tell them it was, as all men being created equal wasn't lost on them.
Georgia cracker is an expression because Georgia slave owners could crack a whip louder and harder than any other owner at an auction. Yes, Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves, the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 (I know my history, gimme a break). So I'll ask you a similar historical question, though this is a bit more recent (unfortunately)... When did African-Americans finally have any inkling of civil equality? It was about 100 years AFTER Abe "freed" the slaves.

But here you and they go again: comparing yourselves to blacks. I said before that you cannot prove that they are born that way, and you cannot. A black man cannot help being black. It is discrimination to deny a black man the same rights as a white man. Comparing that to a choice in sexual partner is as absurd as it is insulting.
And I admitted that you cannot prove that they are born that way, but you can't disprove it either... And, as I said before, even if you could prove it, people would still say things like "Well, some criminals are born that way, but we don't condone their actions, why should we condone gays?" The fact of the matter is that if you don't like homosexuality, then you'll find a way to justify it to yourself. And again, your whole "speaking for the blacks" thing falls completely to pieces with my room mate... He says what's more insulting is the fact that you think because of a choice he made, that he shouldn't be allowed the same privileges as you. He thinks THAT'S the absurd and insulting thing.

I'm not going to sit here and list the tax laws associated with marriage to you. Educate yourself. They are numerous, and if you pay taxes then part of your money goes to the tax breaks of married individuals.
Yes, I do. And I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed tax breaks... ESPECIALLY if they have a child.

What I said was accurate: I do not care if they want to marry. I supported and still do support their legal union.

I object to their tactics and the slippery slope they constantly employ to override the will of the people.

Let me say that again: it is the precedent it sets.

See, first they said, "Hey, all we want is to not be treated differently." Poof, the government makes hate laws protecting them.
And yet gays received the same treatment as before. But whatever......
Good enough? Nope. Read on, Macbeth!

Then they ran right back to the same legislature and said, "We demand that homosexuality be taught in schools as natural!" A heavy sigh was heard, as well as loud outcry from the people, but they were now considered "equal" and, therefore, had a right not to be discriminated against in school.
I wasn't taught anything about homosexuality other than it had a high transmission rate of STDs.
Done now, right? Think again.

"We want civil unions! That's all we want!" The government said NO - resoundingly. Marriage, they determined, was between one man and one woman of consenting age that were not related by blood. "Oh, no, we don't want marriage! We just want the legal rights. We'll never want marriage itself. Give us civil unions instead and we'll be happy."

So the government once again cowed to their pressure and reversed the decision. They were granted civil unions, as well as the current DA/DT policy in the military.
And most states didn't allow them those civil unions. Do you know how many states actually allow civil unions? A resounding 4... Yep, that's equality for ya!

Guess where that led us? Now they want the very term "marriage" changed to include them! To HELL with over 200 years of American Christian values. I am special, hear me roar, gimme gimme gimme. And suddenly, DA/DT is also inadequate!
He who stands like a tree falls in battle, he who bends like a reed will triumph. Change with the times or get left behind. The rest of the world has (which has much deeper run Christian values) but you think America (who was founded on the principal that people should have FREEDOM of religion) has the most Christian values?
I am fed up with their crap. All of it. I have never discriminated against anyone just because they're gay. But because I respect the Judeo-Christian values the founders of our Constitution built this nation on, I am CONSTANTLY labeled a bigot and told I AM discriminatory. Iowa just said so, for crying out loud.
To treat a human being based on a personal choice they made (that doesn't abjectly affect you personally in your day to day life) is closed-minded and ignorant. Your coldness to the general idea of mankind is absolutely saddening to me. To think that a human could treat another human this way based on something so small in the grand scheme of things... Well, quite honestly, it's not very "Christian" itself, is it? Love your neighbor as yourself and all that...
This is the slippery slope, the precedent, that I fear. It's never enough with them. Give them an inch and they want a mile, to borrow the adage. They pervade almost every aspect of daily life. They're plastered over the TV - the show isn't "hip" if it doesn't have flamers in it (and yes, I know most gays are not flamers, but that is the embellishment of Hollywood for you). Every day they are on the news screaming about their so-called oppression. They have even invaded the schools to proselytize their garbage to kids! KIDS! I don't want my kids learning about sexual preference in public school - what part of the three R's does THAT fall under?
When was the last time you saw a gay riot on television? And as far as your flamers go... Rather than belittling them, why not take the opportunity to educate your children to be open-minded and accepting? Why not teach them that people are still people, and you shouldn't treat them differently because of small differences? Let me ask you... How would you feel if your son or daughter was gay? Would you disown them, or because you had a special connection to him/her, would you suddenly have a change of heart to see your child happy? What if he wanted to get married? Would you tell him no, you're not allowed?
 
More than that, though, is what they take away from the rest of us to get the special treatment they want. I refuse to allow them to take marriage away, too. Enough is freaking enough. When you're talking about changing the very foundation this nation was built on, I draw the line. The forefathers are spinning in their graves. Liberals are wrecking this REPUBLIC, and they are in cahoots with the gays to make us Europe, part deux. Well, I don't want to be Little Europe. I enjoy being rogue. It's why we seceded in the first place!
The forefathers called for a separation of church and state... Because they knew that religious loudmouths would try and assert themselves into the governmental body and ruin the reason we seceded... Freedom. We seceded because we were oppressed and wanted freedom to do what we wanted... No one could tell us what to do... But clearly people now think that they are somehow better than others and can say who marries whom...
I'm all for gays being happy. Honestly. I never have and never will want anything to block their happiness, any more than I want barriers in the way of my own happiness.

But I am also for keeping the tenets that is the nation of the United States of America. Gay marriage is not in keeping with that foundation, in my humble opinion.

We've taken God out of everything. Whether you believe in Him or not, our founding fathers did. The laws they enacted and the rights they bestowed upon us are faith based.
Again, we were supposed to take God out of it. He wasn't supposed to be in it, because not everyone believes in Him, and even those who DO believe in Him don't believe the same things... The Founding Fathers wanted level-headed, logical reasoning at the helm of the United States government. Did you know Ben Franklin was an Atheist? Real Christian values there....

And no, I don't believe that all gay people are going to hell. I'm not God, and it isn't my decision. I have no room to judge anyone, as I have enough sins of my own to contend with. And I do believe that SOME people are born gay, just like some people are born geniuses and some people are born alcoholics. But I say that the vast majority of them are making a decision. They are liberals that want America to change.
You think they're only doing it to change America? Aha. Aha. That's funny.

Between their whining and sniveling and moaning about how I oppress them, I am just fed up with it. Move to France. What's wrong with civil unions? Why attack the tradition of the definition that is "marriage?" There's one reason and one reason ONLY to want that change, and it isn't equality.
Because that's what they want... If they believe that marriage is a sacred union, and want to share that bond with someone, then they should be allowed to do so. Neither you nor I can tell them not to. Judge not, lest ye be judged.
It's nothing against anyone that is honestly gay. It's the social changes I object to.
Well obviously.
 
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And I've completely justified the only two examples you care to site. Any more laws you'd care to toss into the picture?

Would these include the laws you said did NOT even exist? It's difficult to have an open discussion with someone who promotes falsehoods.


What if the government were to tell you that because you picked a certain type of car, home, or school system that you could no longer get married? If you made any type of choice and the government told you you couldn't do something because of it, you'd be pissed as a hornet's nest, wouldn't you? Because the government has NO RIGHT to interfere with your personal life. Right? So I ask you, what the hell is the difference? You still have yet to tell me how marriage is so public........

Coming from a man that wants the government to limit my right to certain firearms, this line of reasoning is laughable, at best. Once again, nothing you mentioned is a Constitutionally protected right. Including marriage, which is a STATE issue.


But marriage is NOT public matter!!! Marriage is between two people and whatever god you believe in! I have absolutely no right or privilege to say who should and shouldn't get married, and neither do you! It's not your business, so stay the hell out of it...

If my taxes support it, you're damn skippy that it is my business.


Georgia cracker is an expression because Georgia slave owners could crack a whip louder and harder than any other owner at an auction. Yes, Abraham Lincoln freed the slaves, the Emancipation Proclamation of 1863 (I know my history, gimme a break). So I'll ask you a similar historical question, though this is a bit more recent (unfortunately)... When did African-Americans finally have any inkling of civil equality? It was about 100 years AFTER Abe "freed" the slaves.

I mentioned nothing about civil equality. And neither did you. You used "free the slaves." I corrected you on that. Deal with it and drop the strawman.

And I admitted that you cannot prove that they are born that way, but you can't disprove it either...

So now you expect me to prove a negative? Man, your teachers need the snot slapped out of them. If you're going to defend their cries of "discrimination," as equal as blacks or females, who cannot help their birth, then it is up to you to prove that they are discriminated against because of their trait at birth. If you cannot do that, which you cannot, then telling me that I cannot prove that they DON'T is very poor logic.

And, as I said before, even if you could prove it, people would still say things like "Well, some criminals are born that way, but we don't condone their actions, why should we condone gays?" The fact of the matter is that if you don't like homosexuality, then you'll find a way to justify it to yourself. And again, your whole "speaking for the blacks" thing falls completely to pieces with my room mate... He says what's more insulting is the fact that you think because of a choice he made, that he shouldn't be allowed the same privileges as you. He thinks THAT'S the absurd and insulting thing.

Well, he's one. 83% of the population of California that happens to be black disagrees with him. I don't speak for all white people, either.

Your grasping at straws - a clear sign that your argument is without merit.

Yes, I do. And I don't see why they shouldn't be allowed tax breaks... ESPECIALLY if they have a child.

Would these be the same tax breaks you said didn't exist?

And gays can't have children. So says Mother Nature. Your argument is with her, and with God, not with me.

And yet gays received the same treatment as before. But whatever......

Another false statement. According to LAW -- the ones you say don't exist, backpedal and then say they do but aren't enforced -- I cannot refuse to hire someone based on their sexual orientation. I could be sued if I did. Regardless of the outcome of the suit, I'd have my business license pulled forever.

Doesn't seem to me that they are treated as "before."


I wasn't taught anything about homosexuality other than it had a high transmission rate of STDs.

How long ago was this? Have you opened a civics book lately?


And most states didn't allow them those civil unions. Do you know how many states actually allow civil unions? A resounding 4... Yep, that's equality for ya!

Sigh... Because it is a STATE issue - not the federal one the gays keep trying to make it out to be! The people of the state enact the laws. The people of all but 4 states see the homosexual lifestyle as a defect and are unwilling to make special laws to accommodate them.

He who stands like a tree falls in battle, he who bends like a reed will triumph. Change with the times or get left behind. The rest of the world has (which has much deeper run Christian values) but you think America (who was founded on the principal that people should have FREEDOM of religion) has the most Christian values?
To treat a human being based on a personal choice they made (that doesn't abjectly affect you personally in your day to day life) is closed-minded and ignorant. Your coldness to the general idea of mankind is absolutely saddening to me. To think that a human could treat another human this way based on something so small in the grand scheme of things... Well, quite honestly, it's not very "Christian" itself, is it? Love your neighbor as yourself and all that...

Would you allow me a machine gun if I never used it against society? Nope.

And it DOES affect me personally, in my day-to-day life: I pay taxes. Marriage affords tax breaks. Don't tell me it doesn't affect me as you're reaching your hand into my pocket.


When was the last time you saw a gay riot on television?

Last week. They're still going to the streets about Proposition 8. Once again...

And as far as your flamers go... Rather than belittling them, why not take the opportunity to educate your children to be open-minded and accepting? Why not teach them that people are still people, and you shouldn't treat them differently because of small differences? Let me ask you... How would you feel if your son or daughter was gay? Would you disown them, or because you had a special connection to him/her, would you suddenly have a change of heart to see your child happy? What if he wanted to get married? Would you tell him no, you're not allowed?

How I raise my kids is none of anyone's business.

I have taught them that their decisions carry consequences. They know that if they are an adult and choose to be gay, they have no legal right to marry. If they decide to be gay anyway, then no - I would not defend them. I do not coddle my children, which is 90% of the problem these days.
 
Then there's nothing else I can say to you... If your thought process is such that if your own flesh and blood was gay, then you would leave them in the dark, then I cannot say anything else to you for fear of being banned permanently from this forum.


Pleasant chatting with you.



Though I do see you must have missed my second post...
 
Then there's nothing else I can say to you... If your thought process is such that if your own flesh and blood was gay, then you would leave them in the dark, then I cannot say anything else to you for fear of being banned permanently from this forum.


Pleasant chatting with you.



Though I do see you must have missed my second post...

Leaving them in the dark does NOT mean not loving them.

It is allowing them to face the consequences of their own actions. And that is REAL love. You teach them to avoid bad decisions. But as parents, we know that they'll make them anyway.

And believe me, Rob, the very first thing any parent wants to do is stand up and shield them. To get in their way. To scream outrage when your own child is faced with consequences.

I would give my life for any of my kids without a single second's hesitation.

What I will not do is teach them that their decisions have no consequences.

If one of them decided to be gay, I would love him or her no less. But if they came up to me whining and crying that they could not get married, I would explain that they knew they couldn't when they made the decision. They made the decision anyway, and now they have to face their OWN consequences. The system is not injust just because they want the rules changed for them. My kids are my equal. Like me, they make both bad and good decisions. I do not reap the rewards for their good decisions, and I will not accept the consequences of their poor decisions.

And yes, I did read your second post. I decided not to address it because it teetered too closely to throwing the conversation way out of whack.

I should never have brought God into in the first place, and I apologize. Whether God should have governmental influence is another debate for another day.

Pleasure speaking with you too, sir.
 
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Leaving them in the dark does NOT mean not loving them.
Of course... I never said anything of that nature, and I'd never suggest anything of the sort. (This is an honest post... I swear.)

I'd like to ask a very basic question... We may have touched on it previously, hell, we probably have, but I want to try and get this at the root of our differences in opinion.


All "flamers" aside... What do you see as wrong with allowing homosexuals to get married? Are there any moral (not religious, but moral) rationalizations behind your thinking? Is there a logical reason they should NOT get married?
 
Of course... I never said anything of that nature, and I'd never suggest anything of the sort. (This is an honest post... I swear.)

I'd like to ask a very basic question... We may have touched on it previously, hell, we probably have, but I want to try and get this at the root of our differences in opinion.


All "flamers" aside... What do you see as wrong with allowing homosexuals to get married? Are there any moral (not religious, but moral) rationalizations behind your thinking? Is there a logical reason they should NOT get married?

I thought I was quite clear on this, Rob. There are several.

The most pressing is the legal precedent we set, as a nation, when we bring the federal government in to define "marriage" outside of its understood definition already. The past has clearly shown us that when special interest groups get their paws into the legal system, a slippery slope occurs. It paves the way for other, more sinister happenings when OTHER special interest groups then decide that the previous ruling should encompass them, as well.

This is a liberal tactic employed almost every time. The very meaning of "precedent," legally speaking, is to change or adapt a law. For instance, a gun-free school zone may be a very altruistic ideal, begun by a bunch of parents who wanted their kids safe. No harm in that on the surface.

But look where that precedent has taken us - expelling kids for even drawing a picture of a gun. One school in Texas is now considering a 100% ban on ANY physical contact. No hugs, no high fives, no nothing. Even the football teams are forbidden from the sportsmanlike and congratulatory pat on the butt.

That is the slippery slope of a precedent. PC run amok, some would say. Others contend that is the doings of liberals seeking to change traditions. Still more conclude that our laws are just too open to interpretation. I fall, to a degree, into all three categories.

The more we allow the homosexual agenda a legal precedent over the will of the people, the more we relinquish our rights to have a say in the nation. Just like the school system, the court system, and any other number of areas where the government decides DESPITE the will of its people. The government is supposed to be here to serve the majority, not control the majority.

Then there is the increased tax burden. I agree that it will be a small one. But that doesn't change the fact that for 200 years the people of this nation have had a say in where their taxes are allocated. I no more want mine going to gay marriage than I want them going to abortion, elective surgery, or someone's desire to own a Ferrari. Therefore, I am vocally opposing the marriage amendments.

In addition, I do not want same-sex couples being touted in public schools as "normal," for I do not think they are any more normal than are alcoholics (I am one, so I am not casting stones) or the afore-mentioned criminals you exampled. We must not give children any ideas that behavior that is otherwise not socially acceptable is now okey dokey. A man having sex with another man is neither normal or socially acceptable. It goes against nature.

Finally, I fear that if we DO redefine marriage, we lend credibility to ANYONE who chooses to call their sexual acts a matter of natural inclination. If being homosexual is now socially and legally recognized, then why not pedophilia? After all, they are born that way. They should not be punished for their natural inclination, and they should be accepted by society. For theirs is the same argument: I can't help it, I was born this way, so I am entitled to the right not to be discriminated against.
 
But marriage is NOT public matter!!! Marriage is between two people and whatever god you believe in! I have absolutely no right or privilege to say who should and shouldn't get married, and neither do you! It's not your business, so stay the hell out of it...

How many people, whether you are for or against Gay marriage, believe Marriage is not a public matter?

Of the married people how many have tried to keep their marriage a secret? And why?

How many think Gay marriage rights would be an issue if marriage was private?

As much as Rob shouts and carries on about marriage not being public, those of us living in the real world would agree it is a very public institution.
 
Finally, I fear that if we DO redefine marriage, we lend credibility to ANYONE who chooses to call their sexual acts a matter of natural inclination. If being homosexual is now socially and legally recognized, then why not pedophilia? After all, they are born that way. They should not be punished for their natural inclination, and they should be accepted by society. For theirs is the same argument: I can't help it, I was born this way, so I am entitled to the right not to be discriminated against.
Don't even open that can of worms with me. I've brought my views on that (as a minor) on forums for years now.

And besides, minors do not have the right to consent. (Or, as near as I can tell, any other rights either.) So one can not marry a minor, even with this.
 
Don't even open that can of worms with me. I've brought my views on that (as a minor) on forums for years now.

And besides, minors do not have the right to consent. (Or, as near as I can tell, any other rights either.) So one can not marry a minor, even with this.

You missed the entirety of the point... entirely.

Why can they not marry a minor if both the minor and the adult say that they are being discriminated against like gays if gays succeed in comparing themselves to blacks and establishing their precedent of discrimination?

See that slippery slope?
 
I thought I was quite clear on this, Rob. There are several.
Of course, but I really want to try and keep this as straight to the topic and civil as possible... To the point where we don't need exclamation marks. ;)
The most pressing is the legal precedent we set, as a nation, when we bring the federal government in to define "marriage" outside of its understood definition already. The past has clearly shown us that when special interest groups get their paws into the legal system, a slippery slope occurs. It paves the way for other, more sinister happenings when OTHER special interest groups then decide that the previous ruling should encompass them, as well.
I'm not asking the federal government to step in... This, at least, we agree on. If an issue is not addressed in the Constitution, then it is not a matter of the federal government. The federal government shouldn't be allowed to tell us who we can and cannot marry. Regardless of whether it is a man and a woman, it shouldn't need the seal of approval from anyone higher than a city or MAYBE a state official.
This is a liberal tactic employed almost every time. The very meaning of "precedent," legally speaking, is to change or adapt a law. For instance, a gun-free school zone may be a very altruistic ideal, begun by a bunch of parents who wanted their kids safe. No harm in that on the surface.
I do realize what precedent means... It's like a gateway law... When you change a law, you have to consider other things.
But look where that precedent has taken us - expelling kids for even drawing a picture of a gun. One school in Texas is now considering a 100% ban on ANY physical contact. No hugs, no high fives, no nothing. Even the football teams are forbidden from the sportsmanlike and congratulatory pat on the butt.
Which is absolutely ridiculous. This is where this whole debate (and any debate really) gets murky very quickly... Where is the line and who draws it?
That is the slippery slope of a precedent. PC run amok, some would say. Others contend that is the doings of liberals seeking to change traditions. Still more conclude that our laws are just too open to interpretation. I fall, to a degree, into all three categories.
PC is DEFINITELY a big factor... The whole liberal conspiracy theory... Not so much... Liberals don't want change for the sake of change... They want change because they feel differently about the way things are and would like to see them go another direction. As far as the laws being too open... Closing them would only lead to a more conservative, closed-minded nation, and that wouldn't be good for ANYONE.
The more we allow the homosexual agenda a legal precedent over the will of the people, the more we relinquish our rights to have a say in the nation. Just like the school system, the court system, and any other number of areas where the government decides DESPITE the will of its people. The government is supposed to be here to serve the majority, not control the majority.
This is a good point... Perhaps homosexuals and those who support them should wait and let the dust settle before striking up the band again. After all, Rome wasn't built in a day... Though I do firmly believe that in the very near future, gays will be allowed to marry....
Then there is the increased tax burden. I agree that it will be a small one. But that doesn't change the fact that for 200 years the people of this nation have had a say in where their taxes are allocated. I no more want mine going to gay marriage than I want them going to abortion, elective surgery, or someone's desire to own a Ferrari. Therefore, I am vocally opposing the marriage amendments.
What would be the difference in a gay couple getting married and a straight couple getting married as far as your tax dollars went?
In addition, I do not want same-sex couples being touted in public schools as "normal," for I do not think they are any more normal than are alcoholics (I am one, so I am not casting stones) or the afore-mentioned criminals you exampled. We must not give children any ideas that behavior that is otherwise not socially acceptable is now okey dokey. A man having sex with another man is neither normal or socially acceptable. It goes against nature.
Sexual education, at least as far as childhood sex. ed., should only encompass abstinence and the workings of either gender's reproductive organs. We shouldn't be teaching our children about true sexual education until junior high AT MOST (and that should be upper level class junior high).
Finally, I fear that if we DO redefine marriage, we lend credibility to ANYONE who chooses to call their sexual acts a matter of natural inclination. If being homosexual is now socially and legally recognized, then why not pedophilia? After all, they are born that way. They should not be punished for their natural inclination, and they should be accepted by society. For theirs is the same argument: I can't help it, I was born this way, so I am entitled to the right not to be discriminated against.
See, this is where I disagree with you the most... Simply changing the definition of marriage to something along the lines of "A union between two consenting, sound-minded individuals of proper age" then we would provide ourselves with a cushion of sorts to those types of claims. Pedophilia is wrong because a child is not mature enough mentally or physically to understand the concept of human relationships other than those of friends and family. Zoophilia is wrong because no animal can understand the meaning of a legal document; which a person is required to sign in order to be recognized as married. Therefore removing any ability for these types of people to have any weight to their argument.



TOP 10 REASONS AGAINST GAY MARRIAGE

1) Being gay is not natural. Real Americans always reject unnatural things like eyeglasses, polyester, and air conditioning.

2) Gay marriage will encourage people to be gay, in the same way that hanging around tall people will make you tall.

3) Legalizing gay marriage will open the door to all kinds of crazy behavior. People may even wish to marry their pets because a dog has legal standing and can sign a marriage contract.

4) Straight marriage has been around a long time and hasn't changed at all; women are still property, blacks still can't marry whites, and divorce is still illegal.

5) Straight marriage will be less meaningful if gay marriage were allowed; the sanctity of Brittany Spears' 55-hour just-for-fun marriage would be destroyed.

6) Straight marriages are valid because they produce children. Gay couples, infertile couples, and old people shouldn't be allowed to marry because our orphanages aren't full yet, and the world needs more children.

7) Obviously gay parents will raise gay children, since straight parents only raise straight children.

8) Gay marriage is not supported by religion. In a theocracy like ours, the values of one religion are imposed on the entire country. That's why we have only one religion in America.

9) Children can never succeed without a male and a female role model at home. That's why we as a society expressly forbid single parents to raise children.

10) Gay marriage will change the foundation of society; we could never adapt to new social norms. Just like we haven't adapted to cars, the service-sector economy, or longer life spans
 
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Not been following this but may be of interest

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8009359.stm

The runner-up at the Miss USA beauty pageant says her outspoken opposition to gay marriage cost her first place in the competition.
It was just a stupid move on her part. If you're at a beauty pageant in front of a panel of gay judges, you want to appease them as much as possible. I have no problem with her supporting her cause, but one can't have their cake and eat it too.
 
Beauty pageants are completely subjective competitions and the harsh reality is that if a judge doesn't like something you said, he or she is perfectly within their rights to give you whatever score as a result of it.
 
Not been following this but may be of interest

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/8009359.stm

The runner-up at the Miss USA beauty pageant says her outspoken opposition to gay marriage cost her first place in the competition.

Job Interview Tip #1

Never, never, never
talk about sex, politics, religion, (or any other 'hot-button' issue that someone will almost certainly take offense to) when you are applying for a job for reasons that should be patently obvious. The same would have been true if she said she supported gay-marriage. Does anyone honestly think that if the judges had been arch-Christian conservatives they would have forgiven a pro-gay marriage opinion?

She's got herself to blame for her loss, as she should have kept her mouth shut. If she wasn't disqualified for being seen as being a bigot, she should have been disqualified for being an insensitive idiot. She is entitled to her opinion, but she ought to know when its appropriate to say such things and when it isn't. The fact that she couldn't tell the difference is a bad reflection of her character.

In other words, The judges didn't disqualfy her, she disqualified herself.
 
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Job Interview Tip #1

Never, never, never
talk about sex, politics, religion, (or any other 'hot-button' issue that someone was almost certainly take offense to) while you are applying for a job for reasons that should be patently obvious. The same would have been true if she said she supported gay-marriage.

She's got herself to blame for her loss, as she should have kept her mouth shut. If she wasn't disqualified for being a bigot, she was disqualified for being an idiot...or perhaps both.

Either way its a bad reflection of her character.

Honesty is now a bad reflection of character simply because an authority figure disagrees with you?

When did it become so improper for a person to engage their mind and not have to be concerned over consequences for the boldness they show in speaking for their beliefs? If she was PRO gay, or gay herself, wouldn't this admonishment be illegal under the equal rights act?

Ah, the standard of double standards. Anything said outside of the politically-correct reference warrants punishment, unless it goes against the traditional grain. At that time, it is perfectly acceptable and to hell with all the bigots that might have a difference of opinion.

Truly, this is a pathetic case of reverse-bigotry. But it is OK, as we all know that gays make up 51% of America, vote their process, and never whine to get their way when they are the minority.

There is a lesson to all liberals here: keep it up, you're ruining this country just as your quasi-socialist agenda dictates you do without the discomfort of a plane ticket to Europe.
 
How can you say we're ruining a country that was based on the idea of fundamental freedom? Who are you to say where to draw the line when it comes to freedoms?
 
How can you say we're ruining a country that was based on the idea of fundamental freedom? Who are you to say where to draw the line when it comes to freedoms?

When freedom affects an individual's career and community because they speak an unpopular belief held tight to their being, it is reverse racism.

I choose to speak out against inequality. I just do it fairly and without bias, unlike liberals.
 
When freedom affects an individual's career and community because they speak an unpopular belief held tight to their being, it is reverse racism.

I choose to speak out against inequality. I just do it fairly and without bias, unlike liberals.
Again, who are you to say where the line should be drawn? Do you believe then, since you speak out against inequality, that gays should get married?

Clearly you must draw some lines, because your posts do NOT indicate a "free love" type of morality.
 
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