In defence of The Pope

Just me. But.........abstinence is all fine and good in theory. Problem is this. Human beings are biologically hardwired to reproduce as are almost all creatures. So for the large majority telling them "Oh just don't have sex. Wait till your married. Use the freakin rythem method." ain't gonna work.

As a Roman Catholic (lapsed) I have a problem with what comes out of the vatican in alot of issues. This being one. Birth Control in general being another.

No condoms are not 100% percent effective. Nothing is. However for someone in the position that the Pope is in, someone who holds sway over alot of people....who believe he has a hot line to God and who have been raised on the rhetoric that comes out of the Vatican, this is irresponsible.
 
03USMC said:
Just me. But.........abstinence is all fine and good in theory. Problem is this. Human beings are biologically hardwired to reproduce as are almost all creatures. So for the large majority telling them "Oh just don't have sex. Wait till your married. Use the freakin rythem method." ain't gonna work.
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I realize this... That's why I think educating them about all aspects of sex... Not just the how, but the reasons to NOT do it, would be very helpful. I'm not saying don't use condoms, just tell them to keep it in their pants... I'm saying that just because we are giving them condoms doesn't mean that we should NOT tell them about abstinence...
03USMC said:
As a Roman Catholic (lapsed) I have a problem with what comes out of the vatican in alot of issues. This being one. Birth Control in general being another.
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Same here, 03.
03USMC said:
No condoms are not 100% percent effective. Nothing is. However for someone in the position that the Pope is in, someone who holds sway over alot of people....who believe he has a hot line to God and who have been raised on the rhetoric that comes out of the Vatican, this is irresponsible.
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Agreed... The Catholic Church needs to revise their opinion on birth control in general.
 
The article makes the point that condom has not worked , in that where that was the order of the day , it is not working, AIDS figures have gone up. In Uganda, for example, where they followed the call for more faithfullness in relationships, more self-discipline with sexual practices, the AIDS figures have gone down.

The Pope's message was making the point that reliance on the culture of condoms leads to lack of care in these matters, and increased, perhaps overwhelming , promiscuity, as we are now finding here amongst our young teenagers 13/14. Fortunately AIDS is not the problem here that it is in Africa, but others things are. The Pope is in the business of trying saving lives, not losing them.


Here is an African point of view (not The Pope):-

"Leaders must be prepared to advocate unpalatable truths if we are to advance the course of reforming our world. We must be ready to reprove popular sins. We must not be afraid to be thought of as old-fashioned.
We must tell the public that the only way we can win the battle against AIDS is recourse to the values of abstinence and faithfulness.
We must let people realize that our civilization may come to an end through an undisciplined attitude towards sex.

Do I sound like I am advocating a utopian world? Well, the choice is ours. . The sensible option is to return to values of purity, faithfulness and self-discipline."



BTW - has anybody read The Pope's speech yet?
 
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I understand your point Del. But His holiness is also in the business of perpetuating the dogma of the Holy Roman Catholic Church, which at it's base level tells the faithful that birth control is a no no and for those not wishing to have children (including married couples) that abstinence is the only sure and acceptable method. This issue luckily for Pope Benny dove tails nicely into that dogma.

I agree that education is the key. However these African Countries need to step up and acknowledge the problem, and start educating their citizens. No condoms can't be relied upon solely, but to toss them off like Herr Benny did is still IMO irresponsible.
 
Agreed. I feel that guys like you and Rob and myself have experienced similar RC
issues . I would not argue there with anything you have said, I just feel there is a point to be made long -term, that the condom culture will save some lives but that AIDS will continue to rage.

I understand that what The Pope actually said was:- 'AIDS was a tragedy that cannot be overcome by money alone, that cannot be overcome through the distribution of condoms, which can even increase the problem'. (my underlines)

Now, I cannot see those words are actually incorrect or offensive. If he then added (I do not know) as has been suggested, that faithfulness in relationships, self-discipline and abstinence in certain practices were required, then I would consider that advice a positive.
 
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The only sure method of birth control for a male is a vasectomy.
The only sure method of birth control for a female is a hysterectomy.
That's my 2 cents.


As a mod the only other two thing I have to say is stick to the subject of this thread!

Please be respectful of other members opinions!
 
“The best way to avoid transmission of the virus is to abstain from sexual intercourse or have a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with an uninfected person.”
Pope Benedict could not have said it any better.
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These are all nice words, but what can I do as a normal mortal when even his own foot soldiers can't keep their hands to themselves?

AN investigation into the "growing phenomenon" of the sexual abuse of nuns by priests, has been launched by the Vatican.
La Repubblica, the Rome newspaper, said nuns were being molested by priests or missionaries and forced to have sex with them. Sometimes whole convents were urged to put their nuns at priests' disposal.
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And these are ordained people who should know better or at least be able not to cave in to primal urges....
Of course this might be a fake story, but there are so many of them. This one came from: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...9/Vatican-inquiry-into-sex-abuse-of-nuns.html
 
Talk about people living in Ivory towers cut off from the real world. Why are the numbers of people contracting aids dropping in some African countries, well I would have thought that so many of them that have caught it have died off so if the population has been reduced then there are fear less people left to catch aids rather than they have been going to church and listening to what the pope has to say
 
Yes Le, but as far as I know this has occurred in only one country, where they adopted this approach. In all the other affected countries the AIDS figures are UP, where there is reliance on drugs. And why should the situation you describe not have happenned in all those countries?
 
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