Hunters and the Army

I grew up hunting in scrub desert in Southwest Texas. Yeah I know our deer were about the size of large dogs. The most important thing that I feel hunting gives you is field craft and stalking skills. Most of the really good scouts are country boys acustomed to moving in diverse terrian. However I know of more the a couple of Snipers who came from urban and suburan back grounds.
 
There must be someone that say against you guys :-) Otherwise there is no discussion.

I have some experience when dealing with soldiers that have civilian experience in specific areas, such as hunting, diving etc. I ahve to say that it sometimes can create a problem especially if they are very experienced. You know there is a civilian way and a military way to do things and sometimes they are not compatible. It can be hard to teach them the "correct" way to do things.

Thats my experience...
 
larsrq said:
There must be someone that say against you guys :-) Otherwise there is no discussion.

I have some experience when dealing with soldiers that have civilian experience in specific areas, such as hunting, diving etc. I ahve to say that it sometimes can create a problem especially if they are very experienced. You know there is a civilian way and a military way to do things and sometimes they are not compatible. It can be hard to teach them the "correct" way to do things.

Thats my experience...
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I agree to a point. You can train people to do most anything. However if a person has an ability it may also be polished and refined on with military training.
 
If their minds are just opened enough it works but if they are to set on the way they usually do things it can be hard.

But I do agree that hunters can be good for snipers.

The problem I've seen most is amature divers that think they know everything when they start Navy diving school and that doesn't work at all.
 
I don't believe just being a hunter makes you any more qualified to be a sniper or designated marksman than say a kid from the Bronx who was taught to shoot by a PMI in boot camp. Sniper is a learned craft and one with a desire to master it will, regardless of back ground.
It just seems that hunters and country boys tend to gravitate towards it more.
 
Some of the best ball turret gunners in WW2 and door gunners in Vietnam were hunters. They understood how to add lead to hit their targets. The military does their best to teach this principle, and the hunter just has the advantage because of experience.

larsrq said:
You know there is a civilian way and a military way to do things and sometimes they are not compatible. It can be hard to teach them the "correct" way to do things.
Click to expand...

I see where you are coming from. Shooting and hunting experience helps and it is all relative, but all the soldiers had better keep an open mind when going through training. For instance, engaging enemy aircraft with small arms is not quite the same as shooting duck.

For an example of how to do it "by the book":

REMOVED


Mod edit: No.
 
ravensword227 said:
RnderSafe said:
Many skills learned from hunting can be beneficial, while many, like shooting for instance, can often times hurt - especially when it comes to long range target interdiction. Bad habits die hard.
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Hunters make better snipers or squad designated marksmen than regular riflemen. Trying to tell a hunter to use suppression fire will definitely not sit well with him. “Spray and Pray” is just stupid to him to understand.

Invariably, hunters make the best snipers not only because of their marksmanship but because of their ability to be cohesive to their environment, the woodlands. Some people may concede that a hunter has the potential to be a good soldier, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he will. Those people say that hunting and killing deer, for example, is much easier than killing a human because deer do not shoot back. I disagree; if the soldier(s) cannot spot you they cannot kill you - unless they are indiscriminately using artillery. <snip>
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I went ahead and cut this short. All I can really say is -- Wrong. Perhaps you should get some actual experience before you attempt to play "know it all" in an area you clearly have little idea about.

Love,
An old hunter, S/S, S/S instructor.
 
RnderSafe said:
ravensword227 said:
RnderSafe said:
Many skills learned from hunting can be beneficial, while many, like shooting for instance, can often times hurt - especially when it comes to long range target interdiction. Bad habits die hard.
Click to expand...
Hunters make better snipers or squad designated marksmen than regular riflemen. Trying to tell a hunter to use suppression fire will definitely not sit well with him. “Spray and Pray” is just stupid to him to understand.

Invariably, hunters make the best snipers not only because of their marksmanship but because of their ability to be cohesive to their environment, the woodlands. Some people may concede that a hunter has the potential to be a good soldier, but that doesn’t necessarily mean he will. Those people say that hunting and killing deer, for example, is much easier than killing a human because deer do not shoot back. I disagree; if the soldier(s) cannot spot you they cannot kill you - unless they are indiscriminately using artillery. <snip>
Click to expand...

I went ahead and cut this short. All I can really say is -- Wrong. Perhaps you should get some actual experience before you attempt to play "know it all" in an area you clearly have little idea about.

Love,
An old hunter, S/S, S/S instructor.
Click to expand...


Thank you Sir! You said what I was dying to say. But much more tactfully than I could muster.
 
RnderSafe said:
I went ahead and cut this short. All I can really say is -- Wrong. Perhaps you should get some actual experience before you attempt to play "know it all" in an area you clearly have little idea about.

Love,
An old hunter, S/S, S/S instructor.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you should not pretend to know my experience? Yeah, ok I will stop being so wrong... I gotta go work up a load for my .357 so I will see you around.
 
ravensword227, adjust your attitude immediately. You are wrong and arguing about it will not change anything. Do not make another off-topic post in this thread.
 
A good example of a hunter using his skills superbly .... there was Shifty Powers from the Band of Brothers fame.
If you read the book, you'll know where he honed his skills.
 
03USMC said:
I don't believe just being a hunter makes you any more qualified to be a sniper or designated marksman than say a kid from the Bronx who was taught to shoot by a PMI in boot camp. Sniper is a learned craft and one with a desire to master it will, regardless of back ground.
It just seems that hunters and country boys tend to gravitate towards it more.
Click to expand...
I think there are people who can master any firearm better than most others. I was watching the History channel about snipers and one of the best was a young Russian girl. In fact, the Russians relied quite heavily on women in their home defense because all the men were chasing Germans.
 
Missileer said:
03USMC said:
I don't believe just being a hunter makes you any more qualified to be a sniper or designated marksman than say a kid from the Bronx who was taught to shoot by a PMI in boot camp. Sniper is a learned craft and one with a desire to master it will, regardless of back ground.
It just seems that hunters and country boys tend to gravitate towards it more.
Click to expand...
I think there are people who can master any firearm better than most others. I was watching the History channel about snipers and one of the best was a young Russian girl. In fact, the Russians relied quite heavily on women in their home defense because all the men were chasing Germans.
Click to expand...

The Soviet Union actually had a great many female snipers. My point was that regardless of where you were taught to shoot the best of the best will prevail.
 
In my personal experience, I dont think hunting really helps you much. It doesn't hinder you either though. Im I guess half country, half city raised. When I went to boot camp, (19d) I noticed that the city boys that had never fired rifles before, actually outshot the "country boys" in general. Being drilled by your instructor for 2 straight weeks in how to fire an M16 is much different from a weekend excursion with your daddy or friends. I guess hunting would maybe help you with climatizing a little better than the average joe. Just my 2 cents, hope I didn't offend anybody.
 
03USMC said:
I grew up hunting in scrub desert in Southwest Texas. Yeah I know our deer were about the size of large dogs. The most important thing that I feel hunting gives you is field craft and stalking skills. Most of the really good scouts are country boys acustomed to moving in diverse terrian. However I know of more the a couple of Snipers who came from urban and suburan back grounds.
Click to expand...

I am a city boy and an avid hunter in the great white north, mostly hunted in Michigan while growing up. I can say that hunting helped my tracking and ambush skills, but did not make me a great marksman or sniper, even though I enjoyed rabbit hunting with a 22 over a shotgun as well as hunting white tail with a 243. I shot expert throughout my career in the miltary and my personal opinion, I learned more about shooting in the military than all the years of hunting as a kid. Sure, hunting taught me how to choose my shots for quick kills, but the military taught me to shot under stress, unless you have a bear charging you, hunting is pretty stress free.
 
Then you'd think I'd be really grand !!

I'm not a hunter, but I do go into the woods bi-weekly, and I shoot rifles at the range.

Actually, the main thing that came to mind, was my arboriculture work. I've worked outdoors since 1980 in Oregon. Right now, while my family wears sweats in the house, I'm in shorts and a t-shirt.

When the weather is about 40 degrees like it was Friday, I was shedding my vest outdoors to work in a single layer short sleeve shirt about 15 minutes after starting work.

I don't know about other people, but it's as if my body has acclimatized to the outdoors. For the more part, I wear a short sleeve shirt all year long, and wear a vest on and off in the winter. I add a sweatshirt when the temperature dips into the 20s.

Oh - yeah, and the fake tree spotting comment from the first post - wouldn't and arborist that shoots guns be perfect for that?

Where's my job application? :mrgreen:

M. D. Vaden of Oregon
http://www.mdvaden.com
 
mdvaden, you're just hardcore for wearing shorts in 40 degree weather. given, i was born in a tropical climate, but i've done a lot of outdoors type stuff when i moved out to the mainland. i still haven't gotten used to the cold, but maybe 2 years isn't long enough.
 
"What!? He wasn't in the military!?"

Simo Häyhä was in the military and deployed in infantry company as corporal and in spring 1940 was promoted straight to 2nd lieutenant for valor in combat.

Last spring i met one reservist who lived in Häyhä's neighbourhood and knew him quite well. Häyhä was somekind local hunting master and won many district's championships in his old days few years ago before he died in 2002.

His confirmed kill account was 520 ruskies but he cheated some and increased his kill account with few ruskies by submachine gun m/31 ;)
 
egoz said:
mdvaden, you're just hardcore for wearing shorts in 40 degree weather. given, i was born in a tropical climate, but i've done a lot of outdoors type stuff when i moved out to the mainland. i still haven't gotten used to the cold, but maybe 2 years isn't long enough.
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sorry for OT, but ur talking farenheit, right, cuz 40 celcius is perfect shorts weather!!
 
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