Whispering Death
Active member
Allow me to clarify myself as some might try to read something false between the lines. I was just saying what Americans from the 50s thought about the Chinese, not my own personal opinion of my modern asian peers.
How did Westerner look at Chinese in Korean War?
MadeInChina
Active member
well dont go over the line man, alot of my buddy's family members died for that dam pensula
stupid american airpower, most of them are killed from carpet bombings
stupid american airpower, most of them are killed from carpet bombings
Given their weaponry and time of existence as a fighting force, you have to give them very high marks. I've read Mac thought there were 16,000 Chinese troops in North Korea, and their actual number exceeeded 200,000. That is pretty sneaky.
The question I have is how do the Chinese now view the American military based upon their performance in Iraq?
I don't think they are as impressed as most Americans would assume; in fact, I think we're lucky they have no interest in mixing it up.
The question I have is how do the Chinese now view the American military based upon their performance in Iraq?
I don't think they are as impressed as most Americans would assume; in fact, I think we're lucky they have no interest in mixing it up.
Missileer
Active member
What do I think about Chinese troops joining with the North Koreans during the Korean War? In my opinion, now, I think that China was wary enough of foreign forces being on their border that any sacrifice was warranted. They had just gone through a horrible war of occupation by Japan along with a civil war among their leaders. Their resources were depleted so they fought with what they had, people. I truly believe that China felt that they had no other choice, they would have fought with their bare hands and probably did.
godofthunder9010
Active member
The general reaction of the UN forces? Well, to paraphrase, "OMFG, WTF??? We're PWNZD!!" China succeeded brilliantly at first, beating back the UN forces with very poorly equipped soldiers. Their bravery was amazing by all accounts.
The issues of casualties and "no, China never used wave tactics" ought to be simple enough to sort out. Every other country that was involved the planet has independent documentation of the use of wave tactics in the Korean War. That is A LOT of countries. China says everybody else is a bunch of filthy liars. Can anyone guess who is telling the truth on this one?? Hint Example: You have a court case with 40 different witnesses. 39 tell the same story. 1 witness tells a completely different story. Which version of events does the court believe?
It can be denied and denied but the underlying thing is this: The Chinese soldiers were brave to the point that it blew their enenmies minds, so no insult of those men ought to be implied. The use human wave tactics by the Chinese demonstrates blatant disregard for the lives of their people on the part of the PRC government leaders and the PLA commanders. Yes, more tactics were used than human waves, but that was the tool that got the job done in over and over again. Human waves were not thrown about with total disregard, they did use them where they seemed likely to win the battle and seldom in the face of impossible circumstances, but it still show no regard for you soldiers' lives.
To sum up:
The Chinese soldiers that fought in Korea deserve to be commended and admired for their daring and bravery.
The commanders and government leaders deserve to be shot.
The issues of casualties and "no, China never used wave tactics" ought to be simple enough to sort out. Every other country that was involved the planet has independent documentation of the use of wave tactics in the Korean War. That is A LOT of countries. China says everybody else is a bunch of filthy liars. Can anyone guess who is telling the truth on this one?? Hint Example: You have a court case with 40 different witnesses. 39 tell the same story. 1 witness tells a completely different story. Which version of events does the court believe?
It can be denied and denied but the underlying thing is this: The Chinese soldiers were brave to the point that it blew their enenmies minds, so no insult of those men ought to be implied. The use human wave tactics by the Chinese demonstrates blatant disregard for the lives of their people on the part of the PRC government leaders and the PLA commanders. Yes, more tactics were used than human waves, but that was the tool that got the job done in over and over again. Human waves were not thrown about with total disregard, they did use them where they seemed likely to win the battle and seldom in the face of impossible circumstances, but it still show no regard for you soldiers' lives.
To sum up:
The Chinese soldiers that fought in Korea deserve to be commended and admired for their daring and bravery.
The commanders and government leaders deserve to be shot.
godofthunder9010
Active member
We might at that. We might not. Would we be willing to use such a tactic when it is not a definite invasion of our own country? US ideology has little tollerance for overwhelming casualties under any circumstances.Zucchini said:
The death toll involved by using wave tactics ... lets say we jump into the middle of a Canadian Civil War between Quebec and the rest of Cananda and magically lose all our nice hardware and gear. The use of wave tactics would rapidly destroy all support for US involvement in such a situation.
MadeInChina
Active member
LOl, human wave tactics..
well, the name usually does not matter, tell me what is in your mind what a human wave charge look slike, othe
r wise i'll take it as an insult
well, the name usually does not matter, tell me what is in your mind what a human wave charge look slike, othe
r wise i'll take it as an insult
MadeInChina
Active member
well why didnt u say so
it should be called a infantry based offensive
anyhow, ya, once you go with it, u cant stop
it should be called a infantry based offensive
anyhow, ya, once you go with it, u cant stop
godofthunder9010
Active member
You mean you have been denying China's use of wave tactics all this time without actually knowing what was being referred to? :lol:AA said:
The reason it is called "wave tactics" is that it relies on overwhelming masses to be thrown at an objective, one group at a time - Much like waves on the ocean beating against the shore. "Infantry based offense", under most circumstances, operates with a far greater level of consideration for the lives of its soldiers. If you are poorly equipped, but significantly outnumber your enemy, selective use of wave tactics can be very useful.
I am still of the opinion that the use of such tactics out to be an absolute last resort. If you know you need such tactics to succeed in an invasion, then you ought to forego that invasion. It is just a matter of respect and consideration for the lives of your own soldiers.
MadeInChina
Active member
well, if uve got only infantry, then its only logical u use them for attacks
the infantry attacks of pla however, consists of storm troopers ( aks, ppshs, grenades) regular infantry and field troops
for example, during the battle of huaihai the an encirclement had some 300, 000 troops attacking into one area
the infantry attacks of pla however, consists of storm troopers ( aks, ppshs, grenades) regular infantry and field troops
for example, during the battle of huaihai the an encirclement had some 300, 000 troops attacking into one area
godofthunder9010
Active member
One of the most important things China has managed to do has been learning from mistakes. Because of the inefficient and less effective nature of massive wave tactics with poorly equipped and poorly trained soldiers, China failed to achieve total victory in Korea. They took their enemy completely by surprise and they were highly successful at first, but ultimately superior technology, equipment and training pushed them backward. UN forces were able to bomb advancing Chinese columns at will. Carpet bombing, napalm, gasoline bombs ... whatever it took to keep them from making it to the front line. They still managed to effectively hold the line and the war ground to a stalemate. North Korea owes its existence to China and the PLA, but at some level the Chinese must have realized - That many Chinese men should not have needed to die.
We can see this in the modern PLA. They are pushing for a better trained, better equipped army with less reliance on massive numbers and more emphasis on having high quality forces. They are not yet completely caught up in equipment. They may lack some things that European and American forces have, but they are working at it. In future conflicts, I think we can expect to see China implement wiser tactics and win battles with their wits and combined arms, on top of their strength in numbers.
We can see this in the modern PLA. They are pushing for a better trained, better equipped army with less reliance on massive numbers and more emphasis on having high quality forces. They are not yet completely caught up in equipment. They may lack some things that European and American forces have, but they are working at it. In future conflicts, I think we can expect to see China implement wiser tactics and win battles with their wits and combined arms, on top of their strength in numbers.
MadeInChina
Active member
ya, we win usually by wits, while most other armies rely on equipment and training
wits as in strategy and tactics
wits as in strategy and tactics
i disagree that chinese soldiers just fighting with numbers and nothing else.
when first entering North korea, they skillfuly hide over 200 thousands ppl and go behind MacArthur's army without being noticed, and ambushed americans,
and punching americans right back to 38th and even captured South korean capital for a while
when first entering North korea, they skillfuly hide over 200 thousands ppl and go behind MacArthur's army without being noticed, and ambushed americans,
and punching americans right back to 38th and even captured South korean capital for a while
I agree that people are exaggerating their reliance on human waves.
They did use them, but they also made some brilliant military moves while working from a distinct disadvantage - no air support.
Rapid encirclements, highly disciplined troop movements with primitive communications, and excellent mortar tactics - they took on seasoned American Generals and accomplished what those Generals had insisted was impossible.
They did use them, but they also made some brilliant military moves while working from a distinct disadvantage - no air support.
Rapid encirclements, highly disciplined troop movements with primitive communications, and excellent mortar tactics - they took on seasoned American Generals and accomplished what those Generals had insisted was impossible.
MadeInChina
Active member
remember that during the korean war china had pretty crummy logistics, being able to support 300000 troops is a feat that should be remembered well
Zucchini said:
i think the human wave shit really starts after the battle line is at roughly the 38th parralle.....when western forces "wake" up from the shock of the coming of Chinese...
than chinese are forced to fight under lack of nearly everything (basically bare-handed sometimes)..against U.S forces..
chinese also defended against western forces, and they fought just as brave as Americans despite lack of fire power...