Hair Cuts.

[usinfantryMOS11c10]

Hence my comment about the bloke who didn't think that he should have the same innoculations as everyone else? C'mon, you are running out of excuses. There's always an excuse to justify selfish peoples exemptions from the general rules of the society in which they live, and believe me, I think I have heard most of them.

There's always got to be some one, or group who think that the rules should not apply to them. And Yes,... I don't like religions of any variety, as I don't feel that any adult who believes an invisible man living in the sky, should be allowed to carry anything more dangerous than a pair of children's round nosed safety scissors, and definitely not allowed to ever make decisions that could possibly affect the lives of others, either friend or foe.

I also beg to differ on this, and I can prove you very very wrong.

These are the names of some Medal of honor recipients... keep in mind they are all Jewish.
I would hope you would trust these religious war heroes with weapons.

• Abraham Cohn
• Isaac Gause
• George Geiger
• Sydney G. Gumpertz
• Henry Heller
• Isadore S. Jachman
• Jack H. Jacobs
• Leopold Karpeles
• Benjamin Kaufman
• John L. Levitow
• Benjamin Levy
• Samuel Marguiles
• Tibor Rubin
• William Sawelson
• Ben Salomon
• Simon Suhler
• David Urbansky
• Raymond Zussman

Everyone is entitled to their belief, however when you start insulting the beliefs of others, to the point where you say that believing in G-d is somehow psychotic, I think you may need to wake up face the facts. Just because you believe in nothing makes you no better than me. I am not insulting your beliefs.... yet you insult mine, after I prove to you with factual evidence the reasoning behind something. Seems like you are clearly dealing with some very strong insecurity issues. I have not once told you to believe my religion, nor have I forced it down your throat. I expect that every individual on earth has the right to believe in what he or she wishes. My religion doesn't personally affect you at all, ask any Jew on the forum. We are the one religion on earth that actually tries to turn people away.


The main question is, if my religious views do not affect you in any way shape or form, Why then are you forcing your belief on me?

I'll sum this up with a quote from a very famous and smart man, it might help you understand your actions.



"It amazes me to find an intelligent person who fights against something which he does not at all believe exists."

-Mohandas Gandhi*

 

[SigJohnson]

Fux me,
I thought this thread was about a hair cut, not some dude's religious belief seminar.
Hasn't this gone on long enough?
You think religion is the be all and end all.
WE GET IT!
You need to understand to most here, the Military way of life, discipline (INCLUDING HAIR CUTS!) is more important than practicing all aspects of a religion.
Thats the way I see it
Get over it

 

[usinfantryMOS11c10]

I don't think that he is questioning the directives. Bit I'd say that he is questioning the need for them to be enacted in the first place for such a petty reason.

I also think that you could see this, but, you elected to play dumb. Or isn't an act?

Maybe his religion demands that he doesn't have to march in step, or shower???? It all just gets too stupid for words once you start making exceptions for people's personal choices.

Your just being childish now, I refuse to squat to your level. After showing you rules from the main governing agency which controls the military, you make it out to seem like I am wrong for following something the military said I could do, something which affects me and no one else. I refuse to carry on this conversation when you resort to insults when you know you have lost. Have a great day, and good luck with trying to prove everyone wrong with your "Opinions" instead of using "facts".

 

[usinfantryMOS11c10]

Fux me,
I thought this thread was about a hair cut, not some dude's religious belief seminar.
Hasn't this gone on long enough?
You think religion is the be all and end all.
WE GET IT!
You need to understand to most here, the Military way of life, discipline (INCLUDING HAIR CUTS!) is more important than practicing all aspects of a religion.
Thats the way I see it
Get over it

It was about hair cuts until people cant take the TRUTH and look at an official document. Then have to start making personal attacks at me and my religious views. I gave the "FACTS" and not "Opinions". If you are that dense to not read a little document that says the rules regarding this subject, which I posted, in which The Governing Agency over all US Branches the DOD has stated their rules, then I don't think you can get anything, minus a knock knock joke. The childish manner in which people snap back at something which is clear as day, leads me to no longer participate in this discussion. You were also shown the FACTS, read them or don't, your ignorance on this subject isn't my responsibility.

 

[senojekips]

Official document, official document,... You don't seem to grasp that we don't give a fig for your official document. I am saying that effectively you are a round peg being allowed to reside in a square hole, exempt from the rules that all others in the same circumstance have to abide by.

When all others have to conform, you feel that you have reason to be exempt purely because you choose to have some ideas that you feel make you different. Just because you can get away with it, don't expect others to love you for it. You are the original "odd man out".

You are "wrong" because you elect to let your religion over rule the fact that you are supposed to be a member of a team.

 

[SigJohnson]

Official document, official document,... You don't seem to grasp that we don't give a fig for your official document. I am saying that effectively you are a round peg being allowed to reside in a square hole, exempt from the rules that all others in the same circumstance have to abide by.

When all others have to conform, you feel that you have reason to be exempt purely because you choose to have some ideas that you feel make you different. Just because you can get away with it, don't expect others to love you for it. You are the original "odd man out".

You are "wrong" because you elect to let your religion over rule the fact that you are supposed to be a member of a team.

Get that up Ya!
Good call Spike

 

[senojekips]

There's nothing that will earn the contempt of one's peers in the forces quite so quickly as to be an alleged member of a team who insists on being "different". As I've said all along if religion is his first priority over being a member of a team he should have joined as a "sky pilot'.

I dunno what's going on in the world today, the "touchy feelies" of the world seem to have our politicians stuffed.

 

[Hook160th]

I never had to shave once while in the Army. I am Jewish And I am not permitted to trim the sides of my beard. I was also allowed to wear my yarmulke or kippah under the Beret, and any other military headgear. While inside I was still permitted to wear my religious attire.

There are many things you wouldn't realize you can do.

A person of Scottish heritage can wear a kilt with a dress uniform.
A Samoan is Permitted to have facial tats if it relates to his religion.
A Muslim is allowed to make all of his daily prayers, even if it interrupts duty.

Any religious rights have to be respected by the service. Hence its the very first in the bill of rights.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If this right is being violated by any unit in any branch of service, then it needs to be brought to the attention of congressmen and respective officers of the unit. It would be a huge mistake to violate this after swearing an oath such as this.......

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."

Please read over the first and most important part of the oath again, for good measure.

=)

PS- as long as the headgear isn't clashing with the uniform it is allowed, I take this as meaning it must be of matching color it's okay.
And as for the facial hair, you have to have a waiver for it. I got mine.

If you think that religions don't have that much power in the military. Perhaps you should go to a military church service of your religion then walk into the chaplains office. This is the one place where you will never salute an officer, on or near the grounds of an area that is considered holy. The reasoning behind this is that there is a higher officer present at that area all ready.

Why is there a pic of you in another thread with all of your facial hair removed after you were in the army?

 

[usinfantryMOS11c10]

Why is there a pic of you in another thread with all of your facial hair removed after you were in the army?

*S I D E B U R N S*

N O T I C E I S A I D

S I D E S O F B E A R D

I typed large for you since you were unable to see the very easily seen sideburns.

And I was getting married, which I typed below the pictures. Attention to detail. If your wondering why I'm not being nice anymore it's because all I've seen since I logged in for the first time has been Anti-Religion (Especially if your Jewish), Anti Semitism, Racism, and various other isms.

And I'm going through a divorce.

I expected to have adult conversations about the military here, and not arguments over clearly stated military guidelines, or whether my people are even a people.

I really just want to relax.

 

[senojekips]

It would seem that what you really wanted, was sympathy, someone to massage your ego and rub your tummy.

As you may have now worked out, many of us here are realists, and the old and misused, "Anti Semitism" argument gets quickly consigned to the rubbish bin, where 99% of the time it deserves to be, especially when it is used as a method of stifling legitimate criticism.

Hell, you want relaxation? Nothing would please me more than to help you, but you must learn that sticking your head in the fire is not a recognised method of achieving a satisfactory state of relaxation. Unless of course you are some sort of masochist.

This is an International forum, and people from outside of your faith and country have very different ideas of what is causing most of the grief in the world and the ways of dealing with it.

 

[A Can of Man]

Precisely.
Pulling the anti-Semitism card prematurely is pretty much the same as pulling the racism card prematurely.

 

[Hook160th]

*S I D E B U R N S*

N O T I C E I S A I D

S I D E S O F B E A R D

I typed large for you since you were unable to see the very easily seen sideburns.

And I was getting married, which I typed below the pictures. Attention to detail. If your wondering why I'm not being nice anymore it's because all I've seen since I logged in for the first time has been Anti-Religion (Especially if your Jewish), Anti Semitism, Racism, and various other isms.

And I'm going through a divorce.

I expected to have adult conversations about the military here, and not arguments over clearly stated military guidelines, or whether my people are even a people.

I really just want to relax.

Thank you for the large type, I appreciate it as I can`t readily see your sideburns. And no, I`m not wondering why you aren`t being nice anymore, I don`t care. Maybe you weren`t aware of it, but this is a big boy forum. Other people besides you have opinions, thoughts, and feelings about the world around them. They come in here, and express them. If that bothers you, then do yourself a favor and stay away.

 

[usinfantryMOS11c10]

I heard that in Air Force theres no hair standard? and what if its ur religion not to cut your hair?

This was the original post question. It seems I am the only one that can be a "big boy", as you said in order to somehow provoke a response and deal with your own insecurities by poking fun as a group at another, and Just Answer the darn question correctly. He asked for the Answer and I was the only one to give him the correct answer. The question wasn't do you think religious haircutting should be allowed, the question just asked if it was okay or not by military guidelines, and the military guidelines say yes. If you would like to perhaps call a congressmen since you aren't taking my word or the Department of Defense's word on it.... be my guest. However if you choose not to believe factual evidence, perhaps your the one that needs to change out of your animal skins ughh, and get adjusted to the 21st Century. If the law is like this and supports this, it must mean "THE MAJORITY" agreed on it. If you find a problem with it, I didn't write the law.

 

[usinfantryMOS11c10]

Thank you for the large type, I appreciate it as I can`t readily see your sideburns. And no, I`m not wondering why you aren`t being nice anymore, I don`t care. Maybe you weren`t aware of it, but this is a big boy forum. Other people besides you have opinions, thoughts, and feelings about the world around them. They come in here, and express them. If that bothers you, then do yourself a favor and stay away.

If I read the RULES, correctly you aren't supposed to express your opinion OH WISE ONE! I'm pretty sure the forum rules stated that if you don't know the answer to a question, don't speculate on it. It's not up for debate, right is right, and wrong is wrong, and if you aren't smart enough to handle it perhaps you should stop worrying so much about being a big boy and dwelling in your insecurities and learn to read.

 

[senojekips]

If I read the RULES, correctly you aren't supposed to express your opinion OH WISE ONE! I'm pretty sure the forum rules stated that if you don't know the answer to a question, don't speculate on it. It's not up for debate, right is right, and wrong is wrong, and if you aren't smart enough to handle it perhaps you should stop worrying so much about being a big boy and dwelling in your insecurities and learn to read.

None of which prevents any member from expressing his/her opinion on any matter. Otherwise there would be no discussion here, everything would be cast in stone and unable to be debated, in fact there would be no purpose in having the forum at all.

C'mon let's be just a little tiny bit realistic here.

fo·rum

  <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/F03/F0316200" target="_blank">

 /ˈfɔr

əm, ˈfoʊr

əm/ Show Spelled[fawr-uh

m, fohr-uh

m] Show IPA
–noun,pluralfo·rums, fo·ra  /ˈfɔr

ə, ˈfoʊr

ə/ Show Spelled[fawr-uh, fohr-uh] Show IPA. 1.the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.

2.a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.

3.an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.

4.the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome.


.

 

[Hook160th]

If I read the RULES, correctly you aren't supposed to express your opinion OH WISE ONE! I'm pretty sure the forum rules stated that if you don't know the answer to a question, don't speculate on it. It's not up for debate, right is right, and wrong is wrong, and if you aren't smart enough to handle it perhaps you should stop worrying so much about being a big boy and dwelling in your insecurities and learn to read.

I took your advice, and learned to read. What I read in this thread, was people expressing their opinion regarding the DOD rules governing grooming standards. The concensus seems to be that while the rules allowing you to have your hair a certain way, or wear religious items, is in fact present......maybe it shouldn`t be. This is where "opinions" come in to play. See how that works? We have the FACT that the rule does exist.......but......we then have the OPINIONS that maybe it shouldn`t.

 

[Del Boy]

In that case, it appears that opinion is invited and welcomed, so here we are:-

Quote:-

"fo·rum

  <a href="http://dictionary.reference.com/audio.html/lunaWAV/F03/F0316200" target="_blank">

 /ˈfɔr

əm, ˈfoʊr

əm/ Show Spelled[fawr-uh

m, fohr-uh

m] Show IPA
–noun,pluralfo·rums, fo·ra  /ˈfɔr

ə, ˈfoʊr

ə/ Show Spelled[fawr-uh, fohr-uh] Show IPA. 1.the marketplace or public square of an ancient Roman city, the center of judicial and business affairs and a place of assembly for the people.

2.a court or tribunal: the forum of public opinion.

3.an assembly, meeting place, television program, etc., for the discussion of questions of public interest.

4.the Forum, the forum in the ancient city of Rome."


The above quote is a typical pony argument from The Dark Lord of Logic.

Now then, my opinion prefers this :-


"When midnight mists are creeping,
And all the land is sleeping,
Around me tread the mighty dead,
And slowly pass away.
Lo, warriors, saints, and sages,
From out the vanished ages,
With solemn pace and reverend face
Appear and pass away.
The blaze of noonday splendour,
The twilight soft and tender,
May charm the eye: yet they shall die,
Shall die and pass away.
But here, in Dreamland's centre,
No spoiler's hand may enter,
These visions fair, this radiance rare,
Shall never pass away.
I see the shadows falling,
The forms of old recalling;
Around me tread the mighty dead, and slowly pass away."


Profound and spiritual for man, whatever the hair-cut.

 

[dombarber]

Female recruits haircutting

How short is the hair cut for female recruits at the VMI induction day ? :shock::shock:

Anyone with first hand experience ?

 

[DOC One of Many]

A great deal of the problem in this particular thread is the abstraction of hair and the lack of an experience bridge between posters. Trusting that boot camp hasn't changed since I have been out, there will be at least one undesirable haircut event for everyone. Nevertheless, while it is desirable to seek to comply with one's religious beliefs, there is a further consideration: the practical in the face of the political.

I will not seek to either castigate or defend anyone's religious traditions; I will only ask that thought be given to what I am proposing:

The British Navy lost an overwhelming number of sailors during the Falkland's war due to burning aluminum and polyester. The aluminum because the vessels were becoming top heavy and polyester because it does look better after a whole day of work lest someone be offended by a working man's appearance. There are other ways to lighten the top of a vessel or alternatively, make the bottom heavier but those cost much more than the aluminum solution. An on-base locker room might be helpful and even encourage fitness but they do cost money to build and maintain and hence, hundreds lost their lives.

The extended coverage of the Kevlar helmet is due to experience that has accumulated since the second world war that a bullet or shrapnel can get under the helmet so as to kill whilst leaving the helmet intact. Modifications due to advances in the state of the art of chemistry have come to allow a lighter and better fitting helmet to be made. However, Kevlar is neither breathable nor all that great at exchanging heat to the environment.

Finally, there is that old standby, the gas mask. Whether the old M-17 or the new M-50, these masks are protective only if a tight fitting seal is achieved. Some have argued that the hood would serve to protect those who have longer hair. However, this has not been found to be the case; it merely delays the penetration by riot agents (which are actually particulates rather than gases.) When one hears metal to metal clanging, one is expected to rapidly don the mask and then assist others if need be. Finally, assuming MOPP -4 protection is advisable as, until the agent is identified, there is simply no way to determine the effects and all nerve agents, all convulsants, and some blister agents are absorbed by the skin and some blister agents will damage the skin even if they are not absorbed into the bloodstream.

It may be politically expedient to emphasize the willingness of the armed forces to accommodate those whose beliefs differ; nevertheless, I hope that the aforementioned examples at the least, pave the way for some more moderate discussion of this topic as the topic is of considerable import (for reasons that have never been all that clear to me personally) to the average recruit. I also hope that these examples might suggest to those who are currently serving but also practicing a rather stricter interpretation of their faith that perhaps they are being political beacons of tolerance but at the price of putting their own life at considerable risk.

Ladies and gentlemen, please be civil to one another and remember that it could have been yesterday that we all fought shoulder to shoulder.

Lastly, the example of the London Police or the Metropolitan Police is inappropriate to the discussion as traffic police and patrol duty officers are not generally placed in situations such as a tactical officer might face. Thus, Nomex, Steel, Syntactic foams for helmet suspensions, Butyl rubber or PolyNitrille gloves and gas masks accompanied by activated charcoal and non-absorbent fabrics.