Gays in military?

Missileer said:
BD, I think some gays would fit in without a problem
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That is a fact.

I know two very competent NCO's who are gay and one officer who are active duty Army. They are very well thought of by their soldiers and receive excellent reviews by their chain of command. No one knows they're gay but for a handful of people. They don't "act gay" and I think that is a very crucial element.

BUT they are a security risk with the current rules. They have an element in their lives that MUST remain secret or their careers are over. It is a situation that lends itself to blackmail.

For me and other soldiers who know their secret it puts us in a very dicey morale dilemna as well. OPSEC and PERSEC and the very lives of fellow soldiers OR friendship? In an environment of teamwork it puts someone in a zero sum no win situation.

For a politician it is a simple thing to do, to lie and to break rules and then shift the blame to someone else. But for a soldier whose very life depends on the bond with the soldier next to him it is a :cen:ed up situation. Do you endanger countless lives or a possible blackmail scenario or do you turn them in protect the force and lose the trust of many around you? Clinton did more harm to the military with this one decision than anything else he did because this goes to the very heart of what it means to be a warrior and needs to be corrected ASAP.

To me this is the only issue with gays in the military because my personal views on their lives should not be relevant. Just like anyone's personal opinions about race, religion, politics etc have no place in the service. You leave that :cen: at the door and do the damn job.
 
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BennettNC_156 said:
Mod Edit: Please try to be a little more polite. Actually, don't try, just do it!

You guys have to be truthful, while you were showering in basic, would you want a gay guy in their with you? No. Not unless you yourself are gay.
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I am assured enough in my sexuality that I really would not give a damn. I have had many gays eye me, and I am still straight! C'mon, if you have a problem serving with, showering with, or sharing a foxhole with a gay soldier, you have to remember one thing. It is YOUR problem. Deal with that, and everything will work out just fine.

Dean.
 
Just wondering if any one has delved into the health issues with sharing that fox hole. If someone is shot and wounded and you had to risk mixing your fluids with his would you want to take a chance that you would get infected with aids because last week he had sex with someone and contracted the virus.

My own personal feeling is that gays should not serve. I do not hate, degrade, or insult them and as far as I am concerned they can do what they want in there own private lives. I don't agree with there life style and believe that God set up a man and a woman as mates for a specific purpose. Nothing that I have seen in my 33 years of life has proven that anything good comes from being gay, besides a strong fasion sense and good hair. Everything surrounding gay men and wemon is controversy, division, deception. I do not want any of those things in the unit that I may serve in the future.
 
The prospect of contracting HIV that leads to AIDS, which can be dormant for years, would definitely be a show stopper for me. There is no way, in a battle, that someone is not going to be splattered with blood and every other kind of bodily fluid when someone beside him steps on a mine or gets hit with a mortar or grenade. It's just too much of a risk to think it can't happen.
 
I work in retail. Retail clothing to be specific. To say I've worked with a few homosexuals of both genders would be something of an understatement. From my experience, most of them don't really fit the stereotypes. They're just "folks." That, however, is civilian life. Obviously there is a vast difference between that and the military world, but, just like the controversy of women in the military, if they can pass the same tests that the rest of the men are expected to pass, then let them join. What really pisses me off is when one group gets preferential treatment that threatens other soldiers. If you can't hump the same ruck as all the rest of the people in your company, then you have no right to be there.

Devil's Advocate question here, though:

If the same genders shower and bunk together homosexual or not, then why not just have combined living arrangements. Saves money on building extra facilities. I suppose my answer to that question has something to do with the massive pregnancy rate on ships, but there are some interesting parallels that raise questions.
 
If I've got a choice. No!! I wouldn't want homosexuals in the forces.

They make my skin crawl. If this offends you I'm sorry, but I can't change the fact.

"Nuff Sed"
 
senojekips said:
If I've got a choice. No!! I wouldn't want homosexuals in the forces.

They make my skin crawl. If this offends you I'm sorry, but I can't change the fact.

"Nuff Sed"
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Thats pretty much the sentiment of certain white people 50 years ago about Afro-Americans when Truman desegregated the military.
 
Like I said, I'm a product of my time. born and raised before all of this "touchy feely" crap came about. When people were free to express their honest opinions.

Speaking of African Americans, I am a personal friend of ex Tech/Sgt Larry removed USAAF and his wife Genevieve, and was invited to Hawaii to their Wedding anniversary, which i attended. He's as black as any man I've ever seen, so you see your reasoning is baseless. The truth of the matter is that we all have our preferences, and they don't always have to be the same as yours.

I know people who don't like eating broccoli, but that doesn't necessarily make them "Bad People".
 
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"don’t ask, don’t tell" policy should go!

It seems [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]GEN John Shalikashvili, [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff in the US during the Clinton era, has said that Gays should openly serve in the military

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=us&ie=UTF-8&ncl=1112378227

I guess the news story states that in the Army, about 25% of memebers know a gay soldier with that figure at 20% for combat arms units.

Is it a matter of time before gays can serve openly?
[/FONT]
 
"The Don't Ask, Don't Tell," policy should stay.

No one needs to know that a certain soldier only likes guys. Homophobes are everywhere they are entitled to their belief. The gay soldiers job is to protect the country and in order to have that there needs to be no division in their midst specially with something so contraversial as their sexual orientation. As much as there are Pro-Gay there are Anti-Gay it would be unfair to ask our soldiers to worry about such things when their ultimate goal is to protect the country that they love and the camaraderie is an important role in their service.
 
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bulldogg said:
And you don't think this secrecy poses a security risk?
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There's always going to be some level of risk.
Why should a soldier have to know his comrade's sexual preference?

I, personally, think that information should exist on a 'need-to-know' basis.
 
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Gays have served in all the militaries of the world. I think that a persons orientation is their private and personal information and should not be worried about.

I been in a lot of showers and confined areas and NEVER once molested or raped my fellow comrades.

I served honourably and if I could would have stayed in serving a full 20 years, but sadly it was not to be and I was medically retired in my 4th year of service to my country.
 
Checking United States Code on the matter......

Title 10 - Subtitle A - Part 1 - Chapter 13 - § 311
§ 311. Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32 under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.


§ 313. Appointments and enlistments: age limitations

(a) To be eligible for original enlistment in the National Guard, a person must be at least 17 years of age and under 45, or under 64 years of age and a former member of the Regular Army, Regular Navy, Regular Air Force, or Regular Marine Corps. To be eligible for reenlistment, a person must be under 64 years of age.
(b) To be eligible for appointment as an officer of the National Guard, a person must—
(1) be a citizen of the United States; and
(2) be at least 18 years of age and under 64.
******************************

I for one cannot see anything which would make merely being homosexual a disqualifying factor for United States Military Service in the case of the Militia, so homosexuals seem to have the legal right to defend America, just like any other Citizen or would be Citizen.
Unless of course the Federal Government is claiming that merely being homosexual is some sort of defect, which would no doubt be decided in a Court of Law.

I can tell you that the DVA not only employs but also cares for a lot of Veterans who are homosexual, people who served honorably, while at the same time being homosexual.
I remember a Court case not very long ago where a Vietnam War Veteran, still on Active Duty was denied his final enlistment because someone finally noticed that he checked that he was indeed a homosexual on his paperwork, so the United States Military wanted to toss out said homosexual service member, short of his time needed for retirement.
The Court said that since the service member had made notice that he was indeed a homosexual, when asked to join the US Military while the Vietnam War was ongoing, and that the United States Military took said individual anyway (thinking no doubt that people were saying they were indeed homosexuals just to get out of Combat Duty in Vietnam) regardless of his sexual orientation, the Court used the logic that if the person was good enough to be in the Military when needed, even as a homosexual, that the Military could not just block his retirement merely because of his homosexuality.

In short, I say homosexuals bleed just like everyone else, and by and large care about the Nation in equal proportion to heterosexuals, and thus have a right just like everyone else to defend the United States of America, in the United States Military, if they so choose.
It has already been proven that, in the past at least, when the US Military is short of Troops, merely saying one is homosexual is not a disqualifying factor.
 
I think it should be allowed as long as they don't make a fuss or an issue about it. Just as no one should make a fuss or an issue out of their background, beliefs etc. Not saying it's all the same stuff, it's that when you're in, you're GREEN. You are the same. If for any reason you feel your difference precludes you from serving with others, that's your problem and you should leave at the next available date. The service will not change for you and it shouldn't. You should change to fit the service.
If you're gay and don't piss everyone off about it that's fine. That's what I think anyways. And I think the laws should be set that everyone physically and mentally fit to serve should be given a fair chance to do so.
 
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