Compulsory Military Service?
03USMC
Active member
I agree with Charge 7. You have to understand the US does not have a history of complusary service except in the event of a national emergency. The 18 year olds here have not grown up concerned about a threat to hearth and home.
In a volunteer Military you at least have the confidence that the 18 year old on your left is there because he enlisted, not because he's a draftee and mad at the world.
In a volunteer Military you at least have the confidence that the 18 year old on your left is there because he enlisted, not because he's a draftee and mad at the world.
Whispering Death
Active member
Yeah, we've got enough hippe left-wing pussy kiddies that would cause quite the scene in any "everyone goes to boot camp" scenario.
Besides, Unlike Europe, Americas generally don't like social engeneering concepts because we have a distrust of our gov't and perception is historically they end up causing more problems than they fix (Social security anyone?). So with any social engeneering propositions you have to keep your goals reasonable, like I feel I have with my proposal.
Besides, Unlike Europe, Americas generally don't like social engeneering concepts because we have a distrust of our gov't and perception is historically they end up causing more problems than they fix (Social security anyone?). So with any social engeneering propositions you have to keep your goals reasonable, like I feel I have with my proposal.
Well, a few points if I may:
1- In Israel not all people report for their service. Some say they are pacifist, some say it's against their religion. Arabs are not drafted, and so on. Sop what? At least most of the population dose it because it's the law. Americans usually do what the law says, if they know it has teeth.
2-This is not social engneering. This is a military notion. It would give the US a very strong force. Now if you start a draft, people dont have to boot-camp. You just give them a short refresh training and send send them to units.
1- In Israel not all people report for their service. Some say they are pacifist, some say it's against their religion. Arabs are not drafted, and so on. Sop what? At least most of the population dose it because it's the law. Americans usually do what the law says, if they know it has teeth.
2-This is not social engneering. This is a military notion. It would give the US a very strong force. Now if you start a draft, people dont have to boot-camp. You just give them a short refresh training and send send them to units.
Whispering Death
Active member
As you'd know from the anti-war demonstartions. Our minority of Poof are VERY VERY vocal, much moreso than yours.
Mod Edit: Don't use that kind of langauge
Mod Edit: Don't use that kind of langauge
Charge 7
Master Gunner
He's right, Sherman. Any benefit we might hope to gain by your idea would be more than wiped out by the social unrest it would cause. Heck, even in the American Civil War there were draft riots - let alone Vietnam. Nope, nothing short of a WWII type scenario is ever going to make any form of a draft viable again in this country.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
And even then it'll be an "if".
gingerbeard
Active member
sorry i mean there is NO point discussing about it. cos the result is either stalmate or the world ends. simple and cannot be any deeper than that.
Hey there,
My this is a long thread.
Considering my experience stems from my compulsory service in the Dutch army this is a topic I became interested in when I found it on this Forum.
1217 put the records right. I was drafted as one of the last draftees after finishing my education and receiving my BSc. Most of my mates were also just off the university and as conscripts we fell into a reorganizing military organization. The government had decided to abolish compulsory service and did not do it the way the Belgians had done it a year before, the Big Bang way.
Main reason for abolishing it in the Netherlands was the fall of the iron curtain and that was obvious in my military training. I was trained to be an officer and we had several classes on tactics and what was called OPFOR (opposing forces), which mainly focused on then no longer existing Soviet Forces.
Now we've been without conscripts for almost 10 years. As a reserve officer I've been in the loop a little. But I do see changes in upbringing. I'm not constituting the indifference youngster (my that sounds old) show these days to them not having gone through compulsory service, but the teamwork and sense of community we found in the army did give us something extra I don't see in those a lot younger than me.
As some of you proposed compulsory service for delinquents or those dropping out of school is not wise for regular military to solve. I think that can be done under good supervision in a different "civil" servitude. There's so much that can be done in our greying over country. A shortage in nursing can be solved that way for instance.
But compulsory service never did me wrong. For defense (and I state the word defense on purpose) it could be a good addition to home forces. I don't think the boys and maybe even girls could use some structure some never got at home. Only those willing and able should be allowed to participate in out of area operations. I would not think well of our offspring being forced to go to Iraq or Iran as they used to (Beirut and Yugoslavia spring to mind). Conscripts have no place there unless they really choose to (ie future reserves like me).
I'm very cheap as a reserve, they only pay me when I have an exercise or training and have a job myself that keeps me busy when I'm not thinking military thoughts.
Above are just my humble thoughts on this subject, do with it as you please
My this is a long thread.
Considering my experience stems from my compulsory service in the Dutch army this is a topic I became interested in when I found it on this Forum.
1217 put the records right. I was drafted as one of the last draftees after finishing my education and receiving my BSc. Most of my mates were also just off the university and as conscripts we fell into a reorganizing military organization. The government had decided to abolish compulsory service and did not do it the way the Belgians had done it a year before, the Big Bang way.
Main reason for abolishing it in the Netherlands was the fall of the iron curtain and that was obvious in my military training. I was trained to be an officer and we had several classes on tactics and what was called OPFOR (opposing forces), which mainly focused on then no longer existing Soviet Forces.
Now we've been without conscripts for almost 10 years. As a reserve officer I've been in the loop a little. But I do see changes in upbringing. I'm not constituting the indifference youngster (my that sounds old) show these days to them not having gone through compulsory service, but the teamwork and sense of community we found in the army did give us something extra I don't see in those a lot younger than me.
As some of you proposed compulsory service for delinquents or those dropping out of school is not wise for regular military to solve. I think that can be done under good supervision in a different "civil" servitude. There's so much that can be done in our greying over country. A shortage in nursing can be solved that way for instance.
But compulsory service never did me wrong. For defense (and I state the word defense on purpose) it could be a good addition to home forces. I don't think the boys and maybe even girls could use some structure some never got at home. Only those willing and able should be allowed to participate in out of area operations. I would not think well of our offspring being forced to go to Iraq or Iran as they used to (Beirut and Yugoslavia spring to mind). Conscripts have no place there unless they really choose to (ie future reserves like me).
I'm very cheap as a reserve, they only pay me when I have an exercise or training and have a job myself that keeps me busy when I'm not thinking military thoughts.
Above are just my humble thoughts on this subject, do with it as you please
Actually in our case it is wrong to talk about compulsory military SERVICE. Soldiers in training are only in training and they don't serve anything or have any responsibility for anything.
Just like students in school. They are learning there, not working. Just give them military training and after it is completed then transfer to reserve. Instead of those soldiers in training, employed professionals and reservists in active service (like KFOR) serve and certainly get paid for it.
And for example frontier guard units which are responsible for border control and running few training units to train soldiers to reserve. Cases when sometimes an armed russian deserter crosses the border, he gets busted or shot by frontier guard RDF, not by soldiers in training.
Just like students in school. They are learning there, not working. Just give them military training and after it is completed then transfer to reserve. Instead of those soldiers in training, employed professionals and reservists in active service (like KFOR) serve and certainly get paid for it.
And for example frontier guard units which are responsible for border control and running few training units to train soldiers to reserve. Cases when sometimes an armed russian deserter crosses the border, he gets busted or shot by frontier guard RDF, not by soldiers in training.
Actually I did serve, the education was not too long, but actual service did follow. The pay was abominable, especially for a sergeant, but I had a full days work. Most conscripts had to serve after they had finished a civil education and were put in a field of work close to the field in which they had studied. Like a electrotechnician would be put into a unit of engineers or behind a radio. Sometimes they were rather out of their field, I probably could have ended up in a medical unit, being a chemist...
Still the matches were okay in most cases.
This decreased the period in which you had to be educated. The most important topics being military topics.
My time was short, my fathers period in the army was 2 years.
I think they deserve the term "having served"
:lol:
Still the matches were okay in most cases.
This decreased the period in which you had to be educated. The most important topics being military topics.
My time was short, my fathers period in the army was 2 years.
I think they deserve the term "having served"
:lol:
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
I thnk you were posting much more recently than that... but welcome back anyhow.
Bory
Active member
oddly enough we were talking about this at school.
The conclusion me an my friends came up with is, If you are drafted, you cannot go into a direct combat role and you choose which service you can enter. If you are drafted but like the idea of joining a direct combat unit, you can voulenteer.
And if for some strange reason you don't like the military, you join the Police Force, Fire Brigade, or the Ambulance service.
But thats just the opinons of about six 16-17 year olds
The conclusion me an my friends came up with is, If you are drafted, you cannot go into a direct combat role and you choose which service you can enter. If you are drafted but like the idea of joining a direct combat unit, you can voulenteer.
And if for some strange reason you don't like the military, you join the Police Force, Fire Brigade, or the Ambulance service.
But thats just the opinons of about six 16-17 year olds