Chinese T-98 MBT vs American M1A1

say that again

http://www.cdi.org/budget/2004/world-military-spending.cfm

United States 399.1
Russia* 65.0
China* 47.0
Japan 42.6
United Kingdom 38.4
France 29.5
Germany 24.9
Saudi Arabia 21.3
Italy 19.4
India 15.6
South Korea 14.1
Brazil* 10.7
Taiwan* 10.7
Israel 10.6
Spain 8.4
Australia 7.6
Canada 7.6
Netherlands 6.6
Turkey 5.8
Mexico 5.9
Kuwait* 3.9
Ukraine 5.0
Iran* 4.8
Singapore 4.8
Sweden 4.5
Egypt* 4.4
Norway 3.8
Greece 3.5
Poland 3.5
Argentina* 3.3
United Arab Emirates* 3.1
Colombia* 2.9
Belgium 2.7
Pakistan* 2.6
Denmark 2.4
Vietnam 2.4
North Korea* 2.1
Czech Republic 1.6
Iraq* 1.4
Philippines 1.4
Portugal 1.3
Libya* 1.2
Hungary 1.1
Syria 1.0
Cuba* 0.8
Sudan* 0.6
Yugoslavia 0.7
Luxembourg 0.2

and for Russia its in the year 2001, its much more now..
 
GDP Ranking 2003



1 World $ 49,000,000,000,000
2 United States $ 10,400,000,000,000
3 China $ 5,700,000,000,000
4 Japan $ 3,550,000,000,000
5 India $ 2,660,000,000,000
6 Germany $ 2,184,000,000,000
7 France $ 1,540,000,000,000
8 United Kingdom $ 1,520,000,000,000
9 Italy $ 1,438,000,000,000
10 Russia $ 1,350,000,000,000

Source:
http://www.photius.com/rankings/gdp_2003_0.html
 
"Sweden 4,5 and take half there and put in to maintenance and storehouse for everything that isn´t thrown away or going directly to the rubbish incineration. The growing problem of bureaucracy and the high rate of taxation will be the Swedish armys doom." You don´t need a foregin enemy to kill an army anymore. :lol: sad on the same time :(


Cheers:
Doc.S

:viking:
 
Countries are spending way to much on military. Why do countries need so many weapons when there just going to be obsolete and thrown out in 10 years... It would be like buying 500 muskets when in 5 years theres going to be the handheld gatling gun... Seems to me there really isnt much of a point. The government should spend more for helping people not killing them . . .
 
not that i am ungrateful for the information..but can you guys relate this military spending to the topic of the tanks somehow..or will i have to declare a :offtopic: sort of thing? :D
 
Big_Z said:
I know the M1 cannon was designed in Germany i thought it was made there too. The M1 is an old ass tank, you guys are trying to compare it to brand new tanks. Americas new tank will be rolling out in the not to far future. No other current tank has come even close to proving itself like the M1. And wow im shocked you mean to say that an M1 has been destroyed?!?!?! Pretty much any tank will be destroyed if you hit it under the turrent from the side like the pcitures you showed. In desert storm I believe Iraq lost somthing around 3700 tanks and we lost 4, and i know one of them the driver had a siezure and it rolled off a cliff killing the entire crew. Also the Abrams uses a 1500 hp turbine engine pretty much all other tanks use diesels. Its the most powerful as well, its top speed is 45 mph only because anything fater then that and the tracks fall off. And to the guy who said Russia is constantly updating their tanks and America rarely updates, maybe its because we get the updates right the first time. The tank even being considered as the best in the 21st century from the 1970s is pretty impressive..... You guys are talking about tanks no older then the 90s some not even in production.


"The M1A1/2 Abrams main battle tank is manufactured by General Dynamics Land Systems (GDLS). The first M1 tank was produced in 1978, the M1A1 in 1985 and the M1A2 in 1986."

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/abrams/index.html
Click to expand...


Model KW /Ton Power output KW
M1 "Abrams"

A1 20.95 1100
A1(HA) 18.97 *
A2 17.60 *
A2 SEP 17.46 *

Leopard 2
A1-A3 19.82 *
A4 Pz87 19.82 *
Strv121 19.82 *
A5 18.43 *
Strv122 18.12 *
A6 18.87 1170


Speed Farward
Model Kph Mph
M1 "Abrams"

A1 70 43
A1(HA) 67 41
A2 67 41
A2 SEP 65 40

Leopard 2
A1-A3 75 47
A4 Pz87 75 47
Strv121 75 47
A5 70 43
Strv122 70 43
A6 72 45


Sorry didnt take the Russian moddels (takes to long to write all this, i will supply it if asked)

Forum screwed it up

First colum is KW /TON the second is Power output KW

On speed the first colum is Kph and the second colum is Mph
 
Its off topic but i laugh when i see those military expenditures.
World $950 billion 2004 est. [see Note 5]
Rest-of-World [all but USA] $500 billion 2004 est. [see Note 5]
United States $466.0 billion FY04 actual [see Note 8]
Im glad to be an American :)

I was wrong about the power output of other tanks the info i was posting was what i learned a long time ago so it was outdated. But the Abrams was making 1500 hp in 1978, other tanks from that era were around half of that. Also that website i posted said somthing at the end about the m1a2 getting a boost in power so it might actually be higher then 1500. I also doubt that their is a tank faster then the abrams because like i said before after 45 mph the tracks fall off.
 
Jane's Defense Weekly, a respected Britain-based military journal, said the People's Liberation Army is set to deploy a new main battle tank, or MBT, that, when fielded, will become the most powerful of its kind in the world. :evil:

The Type-98 nonetheless demonstrates that the PLA is capable of producing a world-class MBT.

Status: T-98 already in service, T-98Gai(Improved version) in production. PLA are also producing T-99. T-2000 in design.


PLA T-98 Main Battle Tank Specifictions:

Weight: 51 tons
Engine: 1,200hp diesel
Power to weight ratio: 23.5hp/ ton
SPEED: 60 km/h
RANGE: 450km
Armor: Frontal arc of turret in RHA: KE Round, 700mm, T-98Gai, 830mm; CE Rnd: 800mm, T-98Gai, 1060mm
Armament:
MAIN GUN: 125mm smoothbore cannon/missile launcher, 41 rnds; PENETRATION: KE, 800mm; 960mm reported w/ new DU rnd, CE, 680mm est; 9M119 REFLEKS (AT-11 Sniper) gun-launched laser-guided anti-tank missiles, 5km range; 1 x 12.7 mm MG


M1A2 Specifications:

Weight 69.54 tons
Propulsion Gas turbine engine, 1500 horsepower
Power-to-weight ratio 21.6 hp/ton
Performance
Maximum governed speed 42 m.p.h.
Speed cross country 30 m.p.h.
Range 265 miles cruising
Main armament 120 mm smooth bore cannon, M256
Coaxial Weapon 7.62 mm machine gun, M240
Loader's Weapon 7.62 mm machine gun, M240, on Skate mount

:D
 
Dont forget that the M1A2 supposadly has DU in/for it's armor, or even cereamic armor, chumbum i think it's called but i do not remember
 
Following are some info about the T-98, a bit old though.

China Set To Field World's Most Powerful Tank

China has made substantial advances in some areas of its ground and naval forces, including upgrades to tanks and armor, laser systems and anti-submarine warfare.

Jane's Defense Weekly, a respected Britain-based military journal, said the People's Liberation Army is set to deploy a new main battle tank, or MBT, that, when fielded, will become the most powerful of its kind in the world.

The magazine said the tank will feature a huge 152 mm main gun with an automatic loader that, when coupled with a new advanced aiming system, will enable the tank to fire on the move with high first-hit-first-kill capability.

The U.S. military's M1A2 Abrams MBT, which is generally considered one of the world's best tanks, features only a 120 mm M256 smoothbore gun, developed by Rheinmetall GmbH of Germany. It, too, can fire while in motion and has a high first-shot capability.

The M1A2 Abrams is an upgrade of the M1A1.

Jane's said China's new MBT is outfitted with advanced armor and an active protection system would also be fitted on the tank for increased survivability.

Another of the newest MBTs currently in mass production in China is the Type 98, a slightly more advanced derivative of the Type 96. But the Type 98, according to published assessments, is fitted with a 125 mm smoothbore main gun.

The latter two MBTs also are fitted with a JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defense device – also called a "dazzler" – which uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner.

AFPC said China is believed to be the first country to use such active laser defense devices on its tanks.
 
BmrSooner451 said:
Dont forget that the M1A2 supposadly has DU in/for it's armor, or even cereamic armor, chumbum i think it's called but i do not remember
Click to expand...

ＤＵ（Depleted Uranium）, same for T-98.

But DU bombs are not the best one.

306486_0.jpg


M829A1 DU bombs were used in M1A1/2 in Gulf War.
The best in US Army is of type E3 which can penetrate 800mm armour.
 
Yea they think "the most powerful " is it having a 125mm cannon. Trust me that tank wont hold a candle to a m1. The chinese have no 21st century knowledge on what makes a tank good or bad except to add a bigger cannon. Experience is everything the Chinese have next to none. They can add 10 million men to their military and it wont change a thing.
 
Big_Z said:
Yea they think "the most powerful " is it having a 125mm cannon. Trust me that tank wont hold a candle to a m1. The chinese have no 21st century knowledge on what makes a tank good or bad except to add a bigger cannon. Experience is everything the Chinese have next to none. They can add 10 million men to their military and it wont change a thing.
Click to expand...

Well, you can say anything you want, that's your problem :lol:
 
EXPERIENCE. Paper facts are just that paper facts. A dodge viper looks better on paper then a porsche but you know what, that porsche will smoke it on the track. "The latter two MBTs also are fitted with a JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defense device – also called a "dazzler" – which uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner" is that a joke? It makes me laugh.
 
Big_Z said:
EXPERIENCE. Paper facts are just that paper facts. A dodge viper looks better on paper then a porsche but you know what, that porsche will smoke it on the track. "The latter two MBTs also are fitted with a JD-3 integrated laser rangefinder/warning/self-defense device – also called a "dazzler" – which uses a high-powered laser to directly attack the enemy weapon's optics and gunner" is that a joke? It makes me laugh.
Click to expand...

Well, you laugh or cry does not change a single point in the issue :D

OK, serious:

1. You said "EXPERIENCE". Sure I respect "experience". But let me remind you a bit, yesterday Greece won the Europe Cup, while almost everyone thinks Greece stond NO SINGLE chance to enter even the second round, obviously according to their "experience", me too, I was totally surprised that this "weak Greece" beat Spain, France, Tschie, Portugal, and WON the Euro Cup :D

2. Please give me a break, those words were quoted from Jane's and US government published articles, not written by Chinese, OK, you can continue to laugh :lol:
 
Sports = yearly training. War = hundreds of years of training. Upsets in war are pretty much impossible this isnt a 4 hour event this is months possibly years to the final bell. And sports are based around skill war is based around knowledge and experieice. Which China has a lack of.
 
I might had come on a little strong sorry. But you gotta understand that adding things like lasers to harm enemy tank optics just sound dumb to me. China doesent even make its own tanks they simply upgrade russian tanks how can they have somthin to combat a abrams when russian tanks are seen as junk compared to western tanks. Upgrade somthin from America, U.K., Germany, Israel and ill be impressed.
 
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