Bullpup vs. M4/M16

You're shooting with the other hand, your aim is already screwed up. There is no other alternative than just copping it, at the end of the day it's better the brass hitting you than the projectile
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Only there is no reason for it to happen. I fire the M16 and the M4 from the oppsite shoulder several times and did not get any brass hitting me.
 
Wallabies said:
Suck it up and take that hot brass right in the face, it doesn't hurt that much and with adrenaline you won't feel a thing.
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Fire a British SA 80 from the left shoulder and the cocking handle will take your teeth out.

I was a GMPG gunner, if I didnt roll down the sleeves of my combat jacket, hot fired brass ejected underneath the gun would bounce off the ground and burn my arms. I have at times had the outline of a 7.62 burned into my arms. And yes, it did hurt.
 
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I was a GMPG gunner, if I didnt roll down the sleeves of my combat jacket, hot fired brass ejected underneath the gun would bounce off the ground and burn my arms. I have at times had the outline of a 7.62 burned into my arms. And yes, it did hurt.
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We had gunners have their barrels burn through their barrel bags and burn their backs. Even had plenty of times with spent brass hitting my hat and coming back into my face. Defensive positions are always fun as well, 3 guys in a 2metre long pit going hammer and tongs. Just part of the job.

Only there is no reason for it to happen. I fire the M16 and the M4 from the oppsite shoulder several times and did not get any brass hitting me.
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They are not bullpups and I can't see anyway to push the spent brass forward on the Steyr.
 
We had gunners have their barrels burn through their barrel bags and burn their backs. Even had plenty of times with spent brass hitting my hat and coming back into my face. Defensive positions are always fun as well, 3 guys in a 2metre long pit going hammer and tongs. Just part of the job.
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If there is no choice there is no choice. If there is a choice, you take it. no point in adding **** to the pile your sitting in already.



They are not bullpups and I can't see anyway to push the spent brass forward on the Steyr
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That is the point of the thread, discussing the M16 vs Bullpup designs, and one advantage is the fact you can shoot it from either shoulder quite easily and not end up with case shaped burns all over you.
 
You asked

Elad, do me a favour and ask him how they fire it from the left shoulder. NOT left hand shooters, right hand shooters when they have to open a corner to the right.
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I said there is no other way than to just suck it up.
 
5.56X45mm said:
Yes, the majority of Bullpups have a mushy trigger because of the linkage that connects the trigger with the sear. It's usually a rod that is the connection point. But on some cheaper bullpup kits out there it's a metal wire.

My PS90 has a mushy trigger but it's still a good shooting weapon.

As of right now the current platforms that can be used by lefties and normal folks without a problem is the FN P90, FN FN2000, and the Kel-tec RFB. The P90 ejects it's spent cases downward, the FN2000 and the RFB efect the spent cases through a small tube just above the muzzle of the firearm.

The AUG platform can be configured for lefties. But it's not a on the fly kinda thing. You have to remove the bolt and charging handle, replace the efection port cover, etc.....

The three rifles that I know for a fact that are right handed only are the FAMAS, SA-80/L-85, and Norinco QBZ-95. Possibly the SAR-21 from Singapore but I'm not 100% sure.



I'm kinda the same way but I am slowly leaning towards them..... A longer barrel in a smaller platform works for me. Hence why I got the PS90. After my Form 1 is approved it's going to have a 10.3 inch barrel with a overall length of 20 inches. That's a tiny platform plus it has a fifty round capacity. As of right now the PS90 with it's 16 inch barrel and overall length of 26 inches is the same size as a H&K MP-5 with it's stock extended.

The PS90 might be the only bullpup I'll ever own though.... no other one on the market has such a fast magazine exchange. Yea, training can get me to work a AUG just as well.... but I think my load out is now M4 Carbines for when things get nasty and a PS90 for regular conceal carry.
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As I said above.... there are some bullpups that are lefty friendly without the need to gut the weapon and switch the internals.
 
If a bullpup could be fired either hand, then its short overall length would make sense. The problem of the British SLR L1A1, albeit a brilliant rifle it was too long. I know the Aussies built a shorter version, which we didnt get in UK, neither did we get a para version.

Having said that, given the choice of an L1A1 or a bullpup, I'd take the L1A1 everytime. On the old wooden stock version, if you ran out of ammunition you could always beat someone to death with it.
 
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Yeah I don't see the need to "deal with" spent casings getting stuck under my helmet and in my flak jacket when I could easily use a conventional layout weapon and get the same results for the less amount of grief.
As for "suck it up," go and shoot a bullpup that's been configured for a leftie and if you can shoot that thing the whole day and still hit the target with a decent score and not have a migraine as a result, then I won't have anything to say really.
Kind of like being stuck with a right handed person's gas mask. Because the filter comes out the side, it's IMPOSSIBLE to aim with your left hand, so I'd have to shoot with my weaker hand, weaker eye and through a gas mask lens that cuts your vision significantly. Fortunately I was able to find one for left handed folks.
 
SHERMAN said:
Only there is no reason for it to happen. I fire the M16 and the M4 from the oppsite shoulder several times and did not get any brass hitting me.
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With the A2 version and upward the M16 series has a built in brass deflector to the rear of the ejection port, even the A1 had a deflector that could be attached.
 
yep. Also if you are carferull you can fire ones without the deflector from the left shoulder and still not get hit....Been a while since I did this but i remember being able to...
 
As for "suck it up," go and shoot a bullpup that's been configured for a leftie and if you can shoot that thing the whole day and still hit the target with a decent score and not have a migraine as a result, then I won't have anything to say really.
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What?

Kind of like being stuck with a right handed person's gas mask. Because the filter comes out the side, it's IMPOSSIBLE to aim with your left hand, so I'd have to shoot with my weaker hand, weaker eye and through a gas mask lens that cuts your vision significantly. Fortunately I was able to find one for left handed folks.
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You don't use the ones with a screw in slot on each side?
 
03USMC said:
Always wondered how that design flaw got approved.
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I agree Gunny. I don't know why they didnt fit a similar design cocking handle as fitted on the L1A1 or the FN FAL, where the cocking handle doesnt move when the rifle is fired. But that wouldnt solve the problem of getting a hot case in the ear if fired left handed

A family friend worked on the rifle at Enfield Lock before the factory closed down. The design team were basically told how it was to be built and had to work around and solve any problems. There were so many of problems with the rifle that one day in frustration he went into the office of his boss, threw one rifle on the desk and told him the rifle is crap and should be scrapped. He was told that because so much money had been spent on the rifle, its now political and that they HAD to get the rifle working.

I have heard that the latest type of the SA80 does perform a lot more reliably then the original, but it still has the problem of not being able to be fired left handed, which I think is a major design flaw.
 
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the_13th_redneck said:
Did they even bother asking the people who were eventually going to have to use it?
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Thats the point 13th, they never do.

As far as I am aware, the SAS firmly refused to use it, instead going for the M16 and or the M4, I also heard that the Para's or the Royal Marines tried to get rid of it, but were overruled.

Young soldiers today know nothing else (in the main) then the SA80 and have no experience with rifles such as the old British L1A1 SLR. I suppose in reality, its all down to what one is use to. I have talked to blokes who have used the SA80 and they tell me that they liked it and thats its pretty accurate.

When I was issued a L1A1 for the first time I didnt like it, I prefered the old Lee Enfield, but then I began to use the L1A1 and liked it.
 
Probably why it's more of a success.
I liked my K-2 rifle. I think anyone who got their hands on one would like it. It's pretty light, it hits good, the buttstock folds and I've never had it jam on me once ever. Once they make it modular it'll be ready to serve well into this century.
It's a very conventional layout.
 
SHERMAN said:
Elad, do me a favour and ask him how they fire it from the left shoulder. NOT left hand shooters, right hand shooters when they have to open a corner to the right.
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so i spoke to him today,and he told me that they just do it the same way they open the other corner,they shoot with thier right hand over thier right shoulder,he says that they dont teeach how to use it with your left shoulder and that u would no need that because there is more than 1 person openning a corner at a time
 
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