Best Weapons for Jungle Combat ?
GHR
Active member
The dense vegetation and general reduced visibility and engagement ranges, make it extremely difficult to locate and engage enemy forces. In close jungle the enemy is often not seen until he is a few meters away. So a designated marksman with a scoped M-14 is of no real value.
The tactics of infantry fighting are built upon fire and movement. This is more or les impossible because visibility in the jungle is poor, usually from ten to fifty meters, more often the former when fog and rain intervenes. This meant that the enemy is usually not seen until the lead scout is suddenly fired on by the enemy. If the scout survived, unless he had seen a muzzle flash, he may still not have been able to determine exactly where the fire was coming from.
There may be a great deal of fire going back and forth, as section commander’s direct fire at where they think the enemy probably is. Such engagements require a great deal of patience and skill. To kill a few enemies might take several hours. Quite often you won’t see the enemy at all during an engagement.
While a LMG would be sweet on the combat side, carrying that SOB through a jungle sucks..! Too cumbersome, gets snagged on everything..! Two issues that comes to mind. One, being the weight of the weapon and ammunition, as well as the rate you are going to use the ammunition. Two, you might start getting strange ideas about the number of enemy that level of fire power might allow you to engage..!
As a weapon on point I would choose a 12g pump or Stoner semi/full auto with drum mag. using a mixed load half buck with a slug at the top. At 30 meters a Stoner custom load shell will cover a 4 foot diameter circle of jungle greenery with buckshot and deliver a solid slug at its core; this will spoil the other guy’s morning. The second shell will spoil his day.
In general, I'm of the opinion that jungles suck. If your enemy wants to hang out in one... let them.
So maybe the best hand held weapon for a jungle fight is a communications device hooked up with the big guns on the other end. Kill them when they leave!
So your suggestion is not totally crazy! ;-)
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Jungle terrain is also quite diverse. Some places you can get around no problem. Other places, it's an absolute nightmare. Your tactics will have to adjust accordingly. In some of the more open jungles, except for the heat and humidity, it's a lot like running drills in a European forest.
GHR
Active member
You're right. Most important is the nature of ops/type of war and of course what terrain you have to operate in.
Tropical rainforest, AKA primary jungle tends to be where land isn't easily cultivatable which tends to mean hills, often steep and on rock. However it can also be flat where local populations are hunter gathers or slash and burn farmers. The second of these gives secondary jungle noted for the density of its vegetation. Of course in coastal and riverine areas you get mangrove and other swampy terrains (scrubby forest on sand coastal soil with high water table). Mustn’t forget rubber or palm oil plantations that can be on a large scale. So yes, point is terrain can vary greatly, so can climate in terms of whether or not there is rain throughout the year with a monsoonal extreme.
Tropical rainforest, AKA primary jungle tends to be where land isn't easily cultivatable which tends to mean hills, often steep and on rock. However it can also be flat where local populations are hunter gathers or slash and burn farmers. The second of these gives secondary jungle noted for the density of its vegetation. Of course in coastal and riverine areas you get mangrove and other swampy terrains (scrubby forest on sand coastal soil with high water table). Mustn’t forget rubber or palm oil plantations that can be on a large scale. So yes, point is terrain can vary greatly, so can climate in terms of whether or not there is rain throughout the year with a monsoonal extreme.
03USMC
Active member
This, the type of jungle makes all the difference single canopy vs triple canopy , the terrian that the jungle is on.
Humping an LMG thru the jungle sucks but is do-able, an LMG is cumbersome even on a road march and generally sucks to hump under any condition especially if you're humping the pig rack and all. It also has an advantage of high volume fire at close range, which is a nice thing to have given the engagement distances in that enviroment.
Oh yes, and I should have added some kind of grenade launching system to "my" squad as well. Perhaps a 40mm GP-25 installed in one of the AK-103's?
Well, the RPK is barely a LMG, more of a squad automatic weapon really, only slightly harder to hump than an older model AK.
Well, the RPK is barely a LMG, more of a squad automatic weapon really, only slightly harder to hump than an older model AK.
84RFK
Active member
That's your choice, but I wouldn't bring enything impact fused into a dense forest or jungle.
Good old fashioned handgrenades will still do the trick on those short ranges.
No need for artillery inside the jungle you know. ;-)
03USMC
Active member
Unless you are using very early Vietnam era 40mm grenades, it wouldn't be much of an issue. Modern 40mm grenades have a safety requiring a certain number of revolutions of the fired round before the fuze is engaged, roughly a 30 meter distance from the muzzle of the launcher.
Seriously cutting down on the amount of bounce backs and premature detonations. It would take a serious Boot on the Blooper to screw it up, doing crap like taking a high angle shot into canopy or something equally insane.
Artillery, especially HE Fuze Delay is effective in the Jungle, the problem is generally target location and adjustment on the supported unit's end.
84RFK
Active member
Nah, my concern was more that an impact fused 40mm may not be activated on the short distance you need it, the need for "light artillery" like that may not be called for in dense jungle.
Watched Armadillo some weeks ago, and there we had a perfect example of a situation where a handgrenade did the job, while a 40mm couldn't be lobbed 15 meters through the bush and into the ditch where the talilaban's were hiding.
Watched Armadillo some weeks ago, and there we had a perfect example of a situation where a handgrenade did the job, while a 40mm couldn't be lobbed 15 meters through the bush and into the ditch where the talilaban's were hiding.
HindStrike
Active member
How come nobody has mentioned 12 gauge grenade rounds. Packs into a 12 gauge shot shell like a slug, but is fin stabilized and comes in multiple fuse and explosive configurations. An AA-12 with drum mags full of these would make a great fire-support weapon, and it would be alot easier to hump through the jungle than an lmg.
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
I like your style sir..... except mine is a little better.
I believe in the effective and over use of Thermonuclear Weapons. I suggest start with a platform in geosynchronous orbit and simply drop them over and over again.... Actually scratch that idea. Rods from God is better. Kinetic Orbital Bombardment is a far better idea. Solid Tungsten rods about a five feet in diameter and 30 feet long should do the trick. All the awesome of nukes without the icky radioactive side effects like fallout and nuclear winter.
Why fight in the jungle when you can remove it from the surface of the Earth.
fredleander
Active member
....
GHR
Active member
D'oh!
It is more a SAW than an LMG.
So does the British Army.
Because machine guns are not as mobile as automatic rifles, they normally remain with and form the key weapon of the base-of-fire element. It is possible to bring a machine gun with the maneuver element for added firepower in the assault. But once it has set up, it becomes another base of fire and is quickly left behind by the rest of the element as it sweeps across the objective. It will spend more time displacing than firing. Machine guns target enemy automatic weapons, key weapons, and command and control elements. Once the enemy deploys, machine guns engage his supporting automatic weapons. As the enemy closes, if the machine guns have destroyed all of the enemy's supporting weapons, they can engage the assaulting troops with enfilading fires across the platoon front.
fredleander
Active member
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Malaya I suppose but yeah, the Singaporeans live with the jungle day in and day out. I would say they're more familiar with it.
GHR
Active member
A GPMG is also a LMG.
In fact, the British established the first school for jungle warfare in India in 1942.
They have basically trained in jungle warfare since then. Today, The British Army Jungle Warfare Training School is localized in Brunei. So yes, they have lots of experience.
fredleander
Active member
HindStrike
Active member
Well a SAW is considered an lmg, it just has a different purpose. Hence the name.