zander_0633
Milforum Gnat
Feast your eyes on this!
Battle of the Battleships
G
G Connor
Guest
Sinking History
At 12.37 the first attack wave decended out of the low cloud base towards their quarry, this consisted of 132 fighters, 50 dive-bombers and 98 torpedo bombers. 2 bombs struck her to starboard, aft of her funnel and level with the after fire control director, 5 minutes later 2 more struck her, one struck just forward of her aft 6 inch turret and the other passed through her after secondary battery control position. Both shells detonated against her 7.9 inch armoured deck, there was no damage below this deck, but fires were started that were never extinguished! These flames spread and detonated the cordite in her 6-inch turret; the roof of this turret was blown away. YAMATO was saved from certain death because the flash doors to her magazine below kept this explosion at bay - very lucky! Avenger torpedo bombers then attacked her - 2 torpedoes struck her portside amidships, containing 600Ib of Torpex they were well capable of breaching her defenses (described later in detail) As a result of this water leaked into number 8 Fireroom and then the port outward engine room, this flooding was at first controlled by pumps. YAMATO took on a list of 6 degrees this was counteracted by flooding her starboard side outboard torpedo protection voids. There are also reports of 2 more hits during this first attack wave- but not proven.
At about 13.00 YAMATO was again attacked this time by a second wave, no bombs hit her BUT again torpedo bombers honed in on her port side and 3 or 4 hit her very close to the first 2. Fireroom 8 had already been abandoned but now the flooding was spreading to no 12 Fireroom aft. The port hydraulic machinery space and the outboard port engine room were also flooded, YAMATO was now in a bad way and at this point most other ships would have capsized. Even in this monster the consequences were serious, she was now listing at 16 degrees, and the loss of one shaft had reduced her speed to 18 knots. Further counter flooding to her starboard side reduced this list to about 5 degrees. This list was temporarily brought under control by a torpedo strike to her starboard side, which caused flooding to her starboard no 7 fire room.
DEATH OF YAMATO
Although seriously flooded to her port side YAMATO could still have made it back to Japan, but this act of cowardice on a sacred Kamikaze mission would not have been tolerated, all her senior officers would have faced a firing squad, therefore they had no choice! After a lull of 30 mins the third attack wave decended out of the clouds towards her, even so, her list was starting to rise again and her port side was in for yet another fatal hammering. 3 bombs struck her portside amidships; another hit her portside capstan causing her anchor to fall into the sea. Even so, not one of these bombs managed to pierce her armoured deck; any one of these bombs would have sunk HOOD!
3 torpedoes struck her seriously ruptured port side, in fact they passed straight through her open hull side and detonated in her outboard engine room - already flooded, which lead to flooding in her port inner engine room and loss of power to that shaft. Another torpedo struck her starboard amidships, causing the flooding of her starboard outer engine room. YAMATO was now listing back at 16 degrees, and the captain ordered the flooding of the remaining starboard areas, this was done WITHOUT prior warning to the crewmembers stationed there and many hundreds died as a result of this counter flooding. This had no effect and her list climbed to 23 degrees, she was also reduced to 8 knots, by this time flooding was uncontrollable and spreading here and there, YAMATO’S end was inevitable!a
Shortly after 14.00 all power was lost and permission was given to abandon ship, at 14.10 she was on her beam ends and when she did finally roll over YAMATO suffered an enormous explosion that blew her to pieces. This explosion was seen over 100 miles away and it also brought down an American aircraft circling above! This explosion was caused by the fact that the fire in her aft 6 inch turret mentioned above was not extinguished, when she rolled over the flames traveled down her lift hoists and therefore reached her magazine, or the cordite bags simply bounced down her hoists and reached the flames.
YAMATO’S TORPEDO DEFENSE
YAMATO’S torpedo bulge was air filled behind this was an inclined armour plated bulkhead that tapered down in size to her keel from 8 inches to 3 inches, inboard of this there were 2 further thinner water tight bulkheads, but these lacked the flexibility to deform without puncturing or cracking, when her main armour plated bulkhead was displaced inwards by an explosion. Although YAMATO was struck by about 14 torpedoes, 7 confirmed or up to 9 struck her port side amidships within about 150 ft of each other, to be more precise the spread of these torpedo strikes was equal in length to her superstructure above. These torpedoes were far more powerful than the ones our Royal navy used against BISMARCK, and American aircraft were far superior to the Swordfish of the ARK ROYAL. YAMATO was in serious trouble after 5-6 torpedo strikes, by the time the third wave was about to pounce on her, her list had already started to rise again. This third wave merely finished her off, although I said she probably could have still made it back home - I am not totally convinced!
Did her torpedo defences fail badly? I’m not so sure, 7 or 9 torpedoes to a relatively small area is quite a lot, even so she was starting to flood after only 2, this is a very subjective point. If these torpedoes were spread out she would probably have survived this attack only to be sunk later by the huge American navy. The really important point is that her horizontal armour unlike HOOD’S was excellent, not one bomb out of about 8 managed to pierce her armoured deck. Forward of no1 turret and aft of no3, YAMATO had no armoured deck and this explains why she flooded so badly a year earlier at Leyte Gulf. Her enormous armour plating was concentrated around her central area that encompassed all her vital machinery, if you can imagine a model boat with all the electrics inside a steel box within her hull then you get the picture- a box within a box!
YAMATO’S anti aircraft defences on the other hand failed badly- VERY BADLY! This was because of a lack of fire co-ordination and time to gain a target because of this low cloud cover plus the reasons mentioned above. Also the Americans machine-gunned her decks mowing down her gun crews, plus many of her guns were already destroyed by the bomb strikes that fell at amidships. As the reader knows this is where most of her AAA was situated in a tight ring around her bridge and funnel area. The Japanese were well aware of YAMATO’S poor AAA this is why they removed her 2 amidships 6inch turrets and replaced them AAA. UNFORTUNATELY these guns were not up to the job; far too lightweight they should have been 40mm. YAMATO also fired an air burst/flak type of shell from her main 18.1inch guns called ``SAN SHIKI`` when these detonated they released thousands of steel balls all over the immediate area, this though was not effective because her main turrets had such a slow training speed, as did her heavy 5 inch dual purpose AAA. These fast carrier based aircraft descending out of a 3000ft cloud base were SWARMING all over YAMATO before these slow training heavy AAA could acquire a target. Leaving only her `lightweight` 1inch guns to do all the work, as the reader can understand YAMATO didn’t stand a hope in hell as simple as that! For want of a better description YAMATO was pounced upon and mugged by a well co-ordinated relentless foe! Even on a cloudless sunny day YAMATO would still have met the same fate, remember Leyte Gulf and MUSASHI, in fact her sister ship was attacked in almost identical manner! Although YAMATO was bombed in her bow area and took on 3000 tons of water, she survived this battle because the Americans ignored her and concentrated on other warships especially MUSASHI. MUSASHI was the flagship at this battle so therefore she was singled out for "A serious beating"
The sinking of YAMATO in many ways highlighted the battleships’ weaknesses; I have read with great interest on this site many stories stating the effectiveness of American AAA on IOWA and SOUTH DAKOTA etc. However, none of these ships were attacked ``EN MASS`` by over a thousand aircraft, if they had been, well who knows! I agree that PRINCE OF WALES and REPULSE were sunk easily, but neither of these ships had good AAA, and they were not in the same league as YAMATO or MISSOURI, that’s a fact for sure. In fact, none of our (U.K.) battleships were up to the job!
THE WRECK OF YAMATO
YAMATO is lying under about 2000ft of water she is in two pieces, the bow section is severed just past her B turret, and is lying on its side, in the middle is the wreckage of her superstructure. This resembles a pile of old scrap, on the other side the stern section is lying upside down with a prop missing; the turrets are lying close by. To the north of her superstructure a large slab of her hull keel area is lying also upside down, it looks like a crumpled up tin box! This I’m guessing is the keel area under her superstructure, considering the wreck is only about 560ft long this missing 300ft or so equates to this crumpled up keel area. Unlike TITANIC, YAMATO’S wreck is not spread out this is because she lies in shallow water, and she exploded while upside down causing the debris not to spread too far. In fact, the superstructure is in a neat pile, when I saw this drawing I was quite surprised to see how compact the wreckage looks! Worthy of note is that one of her anchors is missing, (mentioned above) and she has torpedo damage to her bulbous bow.
At 12.37 the first attack wave decended out of the low cloud base towards their quarry, this consisted of 132 fighters, 50 dive-bombers and 98 torpedo bombers. 2 bombs struck her to starboard, aft of her funnel and level with the after fire control director, 5 minutes later 2 more struck her, one struck just forward of her aft 6 inch turret and the other passed through her after secondary battery control position. Both shells detonated against her 7.9 inch armoured deck, there was no damage below this deck, but fires were started that were never extinguished! These flames spread and detonated the cordite in her 6-inch turret; the roof of this turret was blown away. YAMATO was saved from certain death because the flash doors to her magazine below kept this explosion at bay - very lucky! Avenger torpedo bombers then attacked her - 2 torpedoes struck her portside amidships, containing 600Ib of Torpex they were well capable of breaching her defenses (described later in detail) As a result of this water leaked into number 8 Fireroom and then the port outward engine room, this flooding was at first controlled by pumps. YAMATO took on a list of 6 degrees this was counteracted by flooding her starboard side outboard torpedo protection voids. There are also reports of 2 more hits during this first attack wave- but not proven.
At about 13.00 YAMATO was again attacked this time by a second wave, no bombs hit her BUT again torpedo bombers honed in on her port side and 3 or 4 hit her very close to the first 2. Fireroom 8 had already been abandoned but now the flooding was spreading to no 12 Fireroom aft. The port hydraulic machinery space and the outboard port engine room were also flooded, YAMATO was now in a bad way and at this point most other ships would have capsized. Even in this monster the consequences were serious, she was now listing at 16 degrees, and the loss of one shaft had reduced her speed to 18 knots. Further counter flooding to her starboard side reduced this list to about 5 degrees. This list was temporarily brought under control by a torpedo strike to her starboard side, which caused flooding to her starboard no 7 fire room.
DEATH OF YAMATO
Although seriously flooded to her port side YAMATO could still have made it back to Japan, but this act of cowardice on a sacred Kamikaze mission would not have been tolerated, all her senior officers would have faced a firing squad, therefore they had no choice! After a lull of 30 mins the third attack wave decended out of the clouds towards her, even so, her list was starting to rise again and her port side was in for yet another fatal hammering. 3 bombs struck her portside amidships; another hit her portside capstan causing her anchor to fall into the sea. Even so, not one of these bombs managed to pierce her armoured deck; any one of these bombs would have sunk HOOD!
3 torpedoes struck her seriously ruptured port side, in fact they passed straight through her open hull side and detonated in her outboard engine room - already flooded, which lead to flooding in her port inner engine room and loss of power to that shaft. Another torpedo struck her starboard amidships, causing the flooding of her starboard outer engine room. YAMATO was now listing back at 16 degrees, and the captain ordered the flooding of the remaining starboard areas, this was done WITHOUT prior warning to the crewmembers stationed there and many hundreds died as a result of this counter flooding. This had no effect and her list climbed to 23 degrees, she was also reduced to 8 knots, by this time flooding was uncontrollable and spreading here and there, YAMATO’S end was inevitable!a
Shortly after 14.00 all power was lost and permission was given to abandon ship, at 14.10 she was on her beam ends and when she did finally roll over YAMATO suffered an enormous explosion that blew her to pieces. This explosion was seen over 100 miles away and it also brought down an American aircraft circling above! This explosion was caused by the fact that the fire in her aft 6 inch turret mentioned above was not extinguished, when she rolled over the flames traveled down her lift hoists and therefore reached her magazine, or the cordite bags simply bounced down her hoists and reached the flames.
YAMATO’S TORPEDO DEFENSE
YAMATO’S torpedo bulge was air filled behind this was an inclined armour plated bulkhead that tapered down in size to her keel from 8 inches to 3 inches, inboard of this there were 2 further thinner water tight bulkheads, but these lacked the flexibility to deform without puncturing or cracking, when her main armour plated bulkhead was displaced inwards by an explosion. Although YAMATO was struck by about 14 torpedoes, 7 confirmed or up to 9 struck her port side amidships within about 150 ft of each other, to be more precise the spread of these torpedo strikes was equal in length to her superstructure above. These torpedoes were far more powerful than the ones our Royal navy used against BISMARCK, and American aircraft were far superior to the Swordfish of the ARK ROYAL. YAMATO was in serious trouble after 5-6 torpedo strikes, by the time the third wave was about to pounce on her, her list had already started to rise again. This third wave merely finished her off, although I said she probably could have still made it back home - I am not totally convinced!
Did her torpedo defences fail badly? I’m not so sure, 7 or 9 torpedoes to a relatively small area is quite a lot, even so she was starting to flood after only 2, this is a very subjective point. If these torpedoes were spread out she would probably have survived this attack only to be sunk later by the huge American navy. The really important point is that her horizontal armour unlike HOOD’S was excellent, not one bomb out of about 8 managed to pierce her armoured deck. Forward of no1 turret and aft of no3, YAMATO had no armoured deck and this explains why she flooded so badly a year earlier at Leyte Gulf. Her enormous armour plating was concentrated around her central area that encompassed all her vital machinery, if you can imagine a model boat with all the electrics inside a steel box within her hull then you get the picture- a box within a box!
YAMATO’S anti aircraft defences on the other hand failed badly- VERY BADLY! This was because of a lack of fire co-ordination and time to gain a target because of this low cloud cover plus the reasons mentioned above. Also the Americans machine-gunned her decks mowing down her gun crews, plus many of her guns were already destroyed by the bomb strikes that fell at amidships. As the reader knows this is where most of her AAA was situated in a tight ring around her bridge and funnel area. The Japanese were well aware of YAMATO’S poor AAA this is why they removed her 2 amidships 6inch turrets and replaced them AAA. UNFORTUNATELY these guns were not up to the job; far too lightweight they should have been 40mm. YAMATO also fired an air burst/flak type of shell from her main 18.1inch guns called ``SAN SHIKI`` when these detonated they released thousands of steel balls all over the immediate area, this though was not effective because her main turrets had such a slow training speed, as did her heavy 5 inch dual purpose AAA. These fast carrier based aircraft descending out of a 3000ft cloud base were SWARMING all over YAMATO before these slow training heavy AAA could acquire a target. Leaving only her `lightweight` 1inch guns to do all the work, as the reader can understand YAMATO didn’t stand a hope in hell as simple as that! For want of a better description YAMATO was pounced upon and mugged by a well co-ordinated relentless foe! Even on a cloudless sunny day YAMATO would still have met the same fate, remember Leyte Gulf and MUSASHI, in fact her sister ship was attacked in almost identical manner! Although YAMATO was bombed in her bow area and took on 3000 tons of water, she survived this battle because the Americans ignored her and concentrated on other warships especially MUSASHI. MUSASHI was the flagship at this battle so therefore she was singled out for "A serious beating"
The sinking of YAMATO in many ways highlighted the battleships’ weaknesses; I have read with great interest on this site many stories stating the effectiveness of American AAA on IOWA and SOUTH DAKOTA etc. However, none of these ships were attacked ``EN MASS`` by over a thousand aircraft, if they had been, well who knows! I agree that PRINCE OF WALES and REPULSE were sunk easily, but neither of these ships had good AAA, and they were not in the same league as YAMATO or MISSOURI, that’s a fact for sure. In fact, none of our (U.K.) battleships were up to the job!
THE WRECK OF YAMATO
YAMATO is lying under about 2000ft of water she is in two pieces, the bow section is severed just past her B turret, and is lying on its side, in the middle is the wreckage of her superstructure. This resembles a pile of old scrap, on the other side the stern section is lying upside down with a prop missing; the turrets are lying close by. To the north of her superstructure a large slab of her hull keel area is lying also upside down, it looks like a crumpled up tin box! This I’m guessing is the keel area under her superstructure, considering the wreck is only about 560ft long this missing 300ft or so equates to this crumpled up keel area. Unlike TITANIC, YAMATO’S wreck is not spread out this is because she lies in shallow water, and she exploded while upside down causing the debris not to spread too far. In fact, the superstructure is in a neat pile, when I saw this drawing I was quite surprised to see how compact the wreckage looks! Worthy of note is that one of her anchors is missing, (mentioned above) and she has torpedo damage to her bulbous bow.
zander_0633
Milforum Gnat
Well, I liked the Japanese Technology. I vote for Yamato. This is because the Kamikaze Spirit of the Japanese is very strong.
zander_0633
Milforum Gnat
Yeah! Although Iowa is faster, but is it faster than the shells of the Yamato? I guess not.
I think it's mistake to compare Iowa with Yamato.
Iowa is big Battle-cruiser against enemy battle-cruiser alike Kongo class.
Comparing Montana or Sovyetskiy Soyuz with Yamato is right
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_class_battleship
or German "H" Class BattleShips.
Iowa is big Battle-cruiser against enemy battle-cruiser alike Kongo class.
Comparing Montana or Sovyetskiy Soyuz with Yamato is right
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montana_class_battleship
or German "H" Class BattleShips.
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zander_0633
Milforum Gnat
HAh! Did the Brismarack sank on it's first trip?
Damien435
Active member
The Hood was sunk by the Bismark after being hit with... one? salvo from the Bismark's guns. How did the battle go? Bismark fired one salvo, came up short, fired a second salvo and hit the read of the ship, fired a third salvo and then the Hood was gone, only three sailors survived I believe.
perseus
Active member
The steering on the Bismark was effectively disabled by a torpedo from a Swordfish. So it was effectively an aircraft carrier with 'obsolete' aircaft which led to her subsequent demise. As regards to the actual sinking, see the comments above.
The Tirpitz hardly ever engaged in a battle, but the fear of her played on the mind of the Royal Navy, resulting in numerous air attacks, resources being diverted from other duties, and a convoy being (unnecessarily) scattered which was subsequently decimated by other forces.
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/tiroperationhist.html
Tirpitz was badly damaged by limpet mines from miniature submarines and eventually sank by tallboy bombs from Lancaster bombers when still in a Fjord.
The Tirpitz hardly ever engaged in a battle, but the fear of her played on the mind of the Royal Navy, resulting in numerous air attacks, resources being diverted from other duties, and a convoy being (unnecessarily) scattered which was subsequently decimated by other forces.
http://www.bismarck-class.dk/tirpitz/tiroperationhist.html
Tirpitz was badly damaged by limpet mines from miniature submarines and eventually sank by tallboy bombs from Lancaster bombers when still in a Fjord.
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