Bullpup vs. M4/M16
Tovarish1
Active member
One of the toughest tasks in the military is issuing a new rifle. It costs a lot and you have to issue them to like 1 million people. But bullpup designs are ideal for CQB. Not as ideal as say SMGs but I trust the M4/M16. Those 2 rifles are one of the icons of the US military and if the US is doing really well with it, then there's no point in rearmament for now.
c/Commander
Active member
Only update I could see being worthwhile would be a gas piston upper to reduce stoppages, but I don't know how reliable the current iterations of the M16 have gotten. Maybe it's completely unnecessary.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
Again, bullpup for CQB is debateable. Although it's a shorter weapon, unless it ejects the shells directly down or forward, you can't switch hands and that can be a problem with corners.
major liability
Active member
I always thought most of the problems with the AR happened during feeding. Though the heat reduction and ease of maintenance makes piston systems well worth it.
c/Commander
Active member
You're right - the AR's problems were due to feeding, but this is a result of the direct impingement design - the weapon "shits where it eats". The gas system dumps off into the bolt carrier group, which is right atop the magazine and such in normal operation - so the more you use the weapon, the dirtier the feed system gets.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
I must admit I was surprised that the M16 didnt use a similar gas piston system as on the FN FAL and AK47.
I have heard however, that the latest version of the M16 is very reliable.
A Can of Man
Je suis aware
The K2 uses the same gas piston system as the AK series rifles and I can vouch for its reliability.
BritinBritain
Per Ardua Ad Astra
Our old L1A1 SLR rifles had the gas piston which was very reliable, provided the gas regulator was properly set.
Seems to me a scaled up FN P90 that fires .45 and silences well would be damn good for close quarters. The P90 avoids the protruding rear magazine and also is "enclosed" in that the shape is not full of things to snag or hang up. I'd think such a weapon could be good for para use,seals etc. I have no experiance with the top mag,but one plus has to be that it's not in the way if in a prone position.
The Kriss Vector is an interesting .45 SMG in that recoil energy is re-directed with the result of much less kick and less climb in auto. Their layout won't translate to Bullpup but I wonder if a pivot counterweight or some hydraulic force transfer can divert recoil energy in the optimum direction,and fit into the butt of a P90 form factor?
Another thought.....could a smaller caliber bullet be loaded into a .45 acp cartridge using a sabot,and what kind of range and velocity would be possible? If a compact,ergonomic weapon could have the ability to enploy .45 for close-in "stopping" also,can be optimally silenced,being subsonic ...AND can use an alternative round with good performance at 200m or more,that would be a damn handy military weapon for several roles.
From what I hear of the FN 2000 it does do a forward eject. While their at it,maybe they can put that in too :roll:
5.56X45mm
Milforum Mac Daddy
I don't see the US Armed Forces changing the AR-15 platform anytime soon. It's a proven system but so are many bullpup platforms out there too.
My AUG with my Interceptor Vest....
My AR-15 rifles... some I built and other were purchased. Most were built.
I'm a man of culture and class.... I can live with both in my world. More varity means more flavors... more flavors mean more sexy gals... err... I mean rifles. Yeah, rifles.
irate2:I don't see the US Armed Forces changing the AR-15 platform anytime soon. It's a proven system but so are many bullpup platforms out there too.
My AUG with my Interceptor Vest....
My AR-15 rifles... some I built and other were purchased. Most were built.
I'm a man of culture and class.... I can live with both in my world. More varity means more flavors... more flavors mean more sexy gals... err... I mean rifles. Yeah, rifles.
yeah i don't see the states taking the platform out but the gun itself will be kept up to the highest class of modern weapons, i do wish, however that the states would do some experimenting with other platforms, it couldn't hurt
KevinTheCynic
Active member
It's a pity the 5.56mm Magpul PDR seems to be nothing more than a concept & a few 1/1 scale mockups for the moment. It could have given the FN P90 some serious competition in regards to size. Might have been just the right weapon for this debate too!
Although it might not be made in a 'real steel' model any day soon, the airsoft community seem to love it so you can find a number of other pics on the web for the PDR.
The following link is to a Magpul pdf about the PDR: -
http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/PDRtech_PR.pdf
Although it might not be made in a 'real steel' model any day soon, the airsoft community seem to love it so you can find a number of other pics on the web for the PDR.
The following link is to a Magpul pdf about the PDR: -
http://www.magpul.com/pdfs/PDRtech_PR.pdf