Stinger Missiles against Supersonic Cruise Missiles

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major_sam47

Active member
Stinger Missiles against Supersonic Cruise Missiles

I am seeking the opinion of experienced military personnel on some questions I had regarding cruise missile defense methods. I’d greatly appreciate any time you could spare to respond.
  1. How many stingers would be necessary to take out one or several cruise missiles moving between Mach 2.5 and 3.0 ?
  2. How would the stingers have to approach the cruise to successfully destroy it – from behind into its propulsion unit ? Mid-section ? Head-on ?
  3. What are the radar challenges in detecting low altitude cruise missiles ?
  4. Could a low flying cruise missile be detected by a low altitude loitering UAV equipped with suitable stand alone radar sensors, and be able to transmit the cruise missile’s trajectory information to a stinger system on the ground ahead of the incoming cruise missile, to be able to destroy it in time ? If this is viable, how high would the UAV have to fly ? How could a gain in altitude of such a radar sensor equipped UAV enhance its detection abilities ? Would it be viable to arm the UAV with air to air stingers as well ?
  5. What simulation and CAD programs, by name, could be used to adequately test and develop the concept ? What software programs could be used to develop a prototype of the UAV ?
  6. Could it be possible to develop a man-portable version of the UAV and the ground mounted stinger system ? – that is, weight and size effective enough for transport by infantry, without the aid of a vehicle ?
Thank you for your time.
 
Correct me if im wrong, but a stinger has a maximum speed of Mach 2.2 so it would be impossible. Assuming there slower moveing i suppose its possible, just very unlikely to work. Im sure someone here can give you a better answer than i can.
 
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You might notice a complete lack of answers from veterans and those in uniform to a person who has not identified himself and is asking questions of a rather sensitive nature as he is asking about the defensive capabilities of current in use weapons.

THINK.
 
Sorry, I'm Sam, in Toronto, Canada. I'm an American working up here. I don't think these are sensitive questions though. You can get a spec sheet on stingers off of the Raytheon site btw.
 
major_sam47 said:
Sorry, I'm Sam, in Toronto, Canada. I'm an American working up here. I don't think these are sensitive questions though. You can get a spec sheet on stingers off of the Raytheon site btw.
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Even so there is a difference between spec sheets and real world and the stinger missile classrooms I had to pull guard duty on were off-limits and well guarded for a reason. Even were I in a position to answer your questions I would be ill-disposed to do so.
 
The Stinger anti-aircraft missile was designed to hit incoming aircraft better than 60 percent of the time. But if it had been placed in service as originally designed, it would actually have achieved hits only 30 percent of the time when operated by soldiers in combat units. The Stinger’s problems were eventually corrected. The first combat use of the basic STINGER weapon system by U.S. troops occurred with the deployment of 27 STINGER teams in the U.S. airborne assault against Cuban and local forces on the Caribbean island of Grenada on 25 October 1983. The system also proved very effective against first line Soviet combat aircraft in Afghanistan.
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http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/ground/stinger.htm
 
DTop said:
I don't know about the stats you quoted but I used to teach Stinger gunnery in US Army ADA school at Ft. Bliss and the accuracy of the Stinger was much higher than 30% ;)
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That was way back in 83'.
 
This question is a non-starter. As far as I know "Cruise Missiles" do not cruise at super sonic speeds. The only time they might make super sonic (Mach 1) is during an attack profile that requires a final high speed dive into the target.

That standard attack profiles involve either a seaborne launch (off of a ship) or an airborne launch. The missile assumes a fairly low level, usually only a few hundred feet off the ground, and cruise at around 500 mph to the target in a terrain hugging flight. The target determines the terminal flight profile, either low and level for an airburst or side penetration of the target, or the missile will gain altitude and then dive for a top penetration.

Cruise Missiles are generally employed at night because of their flight profile. Low and relatively slow is not the way to survive in hostile airspace.

Could someone bring one down with a Stinger? Sure why not. If the variables are right, and the gunner is good, or lucky, at hit could probably be scored.

But the same applies to a guy with a Marlin 60 .22LR.

Heres a link to Raytheon's fact sheet.

http://www.raytheon.com/products/stellent/groups/public/documents/content/cms01_055764.pdf
 
Forrest_Gump said:
This question is a non-starter. As far as I know "Cruise Missiles" do not cruise at super sonic speeds. The only time they might make super sonic (Mach 1) is during an attack profile that requires a final high speed dive into the target.

That standard attack profiles involve either a seaborne launch (off of a ship) or an airborne launch. The missile assumes a fairly low level, usually only a few hundred feet off the ground, and cruise at around 500 mph to the target in a terrain hugging flight. The target determines the terminal flight profile, either low and level for an airburst or side penetration of the target, or the missile will gain altitude and then dive for a top penetration.

Cruise Missiles are generally employed at night because of their flight profile. Low and relatively slow is not the way to survive in hostile airspace.

Could someone bring one down with a Stinger? Sure why not. If the variables are right, and the gunner is good, or lucky, at hit could probably be scored.

But the same applies to a guy with a Marlin 60 .22LR.

Heres a link to Raytheon's fact sheet.

http://www.raytheon.com/products/stellent/groups/public/documents/content/cms01_055764.pdf
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In my exprinces a Marlin 60 .22LR doesn't use Passive IR to seek targets and is Fire and Forget.
 
What? Your .22LR's don't have passive IR? You need to shop at better stores LOL.

No really, I was just making the point that almost anything, no matter how improbable, is to some point "possible".

Years ago when I was in the CAP, a cadet was getting flight lessons when the Senior Member Instructor took a hit in the leg from a .22LR that was fired by some moron on the ground. The cadet managed to land the plane and everything worked out alright. They caught the idiot that did it, and he admitted that he was trying to hit the plane, but since it was so high (1,000+ feet) he didn't think he would actually score a hit.

Dumb luck, good and bad, all the way around.
 
Forrest_Gump said:
What? Your .22LR's don't have passive IR? You need to shop at better stores LOL.

No really, I was just making the point that almost anything, no matter how improbable, is to some point "possible".

Years ago when I was in the CAP, a cadet was getting flight lessons when the Senior Member Instructor took a hit in the leg from a .22LR that was fired by some moron on the ground. The cadet managed to land the plane and everything worked out alright. They caught the idiot that did it, and he admitted that he was trying to hit the plane, but since it was so high (1,000+ feet) he didn't think he would actually score a hit.

Dumb luck, good and bad, all the way around.
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Scary.... But big difference, a Stinger is not a direct fire weapon while a .22LR being a direct fire weapon. Whole reason for the Patriot PAC-3 is to defeat missile threats.
 
Even in the cruise missile was going much faster than the Stinger, you could still hit it from the front as it approaches. It would take a bit of luck and good positioning, but it could be done. I don't know of any cruise missiles that take evasive action when they're fired upon.
 
major liability said:
Even in the cruise missile was going much faster than the Stinger, you could still hit it from the front as it approaches. It would take a bit of luck and good positioning, but it could be done. I don't know of any cruise missiles that take evasive action when they're fired upon.
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Maybe if it where a TOW like system, but the Stinger uses Passive IR to track targets. Meaning it needs a heat source to track.
 
The Russians have a supersonic cruise missile called Oynx. I wonder what altitude US radar would have to be situated at to be effective in detecting one.
 
Need more feedback

Has this topic been adequately concluded ?

There hasn't been enough analysis here of how exactly a stinger would have to intercept a cruise missile to successfully destroy it. Raytheon claims in their specifications for Stingers that cruise missiles can be intercepted by a Stinger, but how ? What angle, aspect, and in what response time ?

Other MANPADS like the Mistral can move up to Mach 3.5 which should be enough speed for good reaction to an incoming Sunburn. At what altitude would an appropriate UAV radar have to be situated in order to successfully detect in incoming cruise missile within a 15 km radius in a look down radar mode ? Does anybody know ? Can MANPAD missiles compete with a cruise missile employing a circuitous, ground hugging route ?

Does a heat seeking stinger need to be coming in from behind a cruise missile to be successfully guided to the target using its heat signature ? What aspect would increase the probability of success ?
 
The whole discussion is a bit of a non-starter really. You've got to be able to acquire and track a cruise missile before you can target it. I'm not aware of many AD systems that can track and pass targeting info to a stinger.
 
Yes, I see what you are saying. What AD systems are there that could do this ? Its hard to understand why a Stinger system couldn't be designed to take that kind of data.

Raytheon is fielding an Aerostat which would be able to radar cruise missiles. Could not data acquired by such means be passed on to a MANPAD ? What would the limitations be with the MANPAD receiver ?
 
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