Iranian Election: Fraud or sour grapes?

Chukpike

Because as we stated the Ayatollah has only limited power in actually running things, and they usually give President free reign unless their is a conflict with Islamic law. The office of Supreme Leader is more like the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, intrepreting law based on the Koran. The Emir's power is like most executive branches. Its not at all the same job.
 
Originally Posted by the_13th_redneck
The system in Kuwait sort of reminds me of Singapore while Lee Kwan Yew was still running the show. They would have presidential elections etc. and they even had a prime minister (which was higher in rank, I forget) but it was all for show as Lee Kwan Yew would be the one doing the actual hands on governing as Senior Minister.
America's selection of Presidential candidates isn't exactly completely free either. They are chosen by the society's upper class. Possibly why regardless of who you vote for, the end result is usually similar enough. Don't believe me? Without their money, you can't even pretend to run for President.
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Sounds a bit like the UK (since 1979) and the US, whoever you vote for the result is always the same, a capitalist government who looks after big business and the rich first!
 
mmarsh said:
Chukpike

Because as we stated the Ayatollah has only limited power in actually running things, and they usually give President free reign unless their is a conflict with Islamic law. The office of Supreme Leader is more like the Chief Justice of the United States Supreme Court, intrepreting law based on the Koran. The Emir's power is like most executive branches. Its not at all the same job.
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Are you speaking for the United States in using we, or are you using We as royalty? If it is the United States we I do not recognize you to speak for me. If it is the We reserved for Monarchs, please supply information supporting your ascendancy to the throne.


Executive branch:
chief of state: Supreme Leader Ali Hoseini-KHAMENEI (since 4 June 1989)
head of government: President Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD (since 3 August 2005); First Vice President Parviz DAVUDI (since 11 September 2005)
cabinet: Council of Ministers selected by the president with legislative approval; the Supreme Leader has some control over appointments to the more sensitive ministries
note: also considered part of the Executive branch of government are three oversight bodies: 1) Assembly of Experts (Majles-Khebregan), a popularly elected body charged with determining the succession of the Supreme Leader, reviewing his performance, and deposing him if deemed necessary; 2) Expediency Council or the Council for the Discernment of Expediency (Majma-e-Tashkise-Maslahat-e-Nezam) exerts supervisory authority over the executive, judicial, and legislative branches and resolves legislative issues on which the Majles and the Council of Guardians disagree and since 1989 has been used to advise national religious leaders on matters of national policy; in 2005 the Council's powers were expanded to act as a supervisory body for the government; 3) Council of Guardians of the Constitution or Council of Guardians or Guardians Council (Shora-ye Negaban-e Qanun-e Assassi) determines whether proposed legislation is both constitutional and faithful to Islamic law, vets candidates for suitability, and supervises national elections
elections: Supreme Leader is appointed for life by the Assembly of Experts; president is elected by popular vote for a four-year term (eligible for a second term and third nonconsecutive term); last held 17 June 2005 with a two-candidate runoff on 24 June 2005 (next presidential election slated for 12 June 2009)
election results: Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD elected president; percent of vote - Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD 62%, Ali Akbar Hashemi-RAFSANJANI 36%

Source: World FactBook

The Emir and the Supreme Ruler (as head of the Council of Guardians) do not have the same power to dictate to their respective executive Branch's?

It will be interesting to see how this election plays out. If Iran is truly more democratic than other middle eastern countries will the Supreme Council determine that there is a need for a recount? Will they determine that Mahmud AHMADI-NEJAD rigged the election and usurped the government from the Supreme Council?
 
That may be what the article says but the Ayatollah and Emir don't actually play the same role.
Mmarsh meant "we" as in the folks that stated in this thread that the Ayatollah does not actually run the country. You really ought to stop nit picking just for the sake of doing so. You know full well that Mmarsh wasn't speaking for the entire United States.
"1) Assembly of Experts (Majles-Khebregan), a popularly elected body charged with determining the succession of the Supreme Leader, reviewing his performance, and deposing him if deemed necessary"
So there, not even the Ayatollah is completely free of any oversight. Dunno if it actually works like that but at least it's there on paper.
And like we (as in Mmarsh and I... since you don't have enough imagination to figure out who I mean) said, the Ayatollah doesn't actually govern the country directly.
 
mmarsh said:
I think you know the answer to the next part, the "we" is people in the US. Because it is simply far too convenient to vilify Iran as some vile dictatorship as some of the rent-a-mouths in the media would like us to believe than have to admit that Iran's system of Democracy (while far from the best) is better that allies like the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia which is suppose to be an Ally. Where it is or isn't is a subject for another day.
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the_13th_redneck said:
Mmarsh meant "we" as in the folks that stated in this thread that the Ayatollah does not actually run the country. You really ought to stop nit picking just for the sake of doing so. You know full well that Mmarsh wasn't speaking for the entire United States.
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No he did not. Try and read the posts. It is not nit picking when someone claims they speak for the people of the United States. He does not even live in the US, how would he know what someone in the US thinks.

Mmarsh claims that Iran is more democratic than some of the US allies. That could be true, but it has nothing to do with this thread.

With people being killed in the streets, we may see how democratic Iran is. We may never know if the election was rigged. People protesting does not mean the election was not fair, just shows that people are not satisfied with the results.
 
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13th Redneck

Its not worth it, hes baiting you. He has done this before, takes something very small and insignificiant and spins it totally out of proportion into a 'gotcha' about the poster himself and not the topic being discussed. Some people just cannot abide for others to disagree with their preconcieved notions resulting in childish tactics like this one.

And yes Chukpike this is addressed to you too. Pathetic attempts like this to derail the conversation into a flame war might have worked with others but they will not work with me. I refuse to be dragged down to your level and I have been here long enough to know someone is trying to deliberatly prevoke an arguement which is why I am not going to comment any further on this. The topic here is 'Iranian elections' not your views on 'mmarsh' which I couldnt care less about anyway.
 
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"Iran's supreme leader sought Friday to end the deepening crisis over disputed elections with one decisive speech — declaring the vote will almost certainly stand and sternly warning opposition leaders to end street protests or be held responsible for any "bloodshed and chaos" to come."

This is from the News managers article:

News article: Iran's top leader warns against further protests (AP)

www.military-quotes.com/forum/irans-top-leader-warns-against-t75817.html

It seems that the Ayatollah Ali Khamenei may use what little power some believe he has to bring calm to Iran.
 
That election is a big lie...simply AHMADI-NEJAD is an servant for the regime..how can people talk about democracy in iran with a such Theocratic regime
 
Look at this.. this is the real face of iran


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ahmadinejad_kissing_hand_of_khamenei.001.jpg
 
Folks

I was just listening to a report from al-Jazeera that mentioned something rather insightful. Appearently more is at stake than just the presidential elections. There is reported that the clergy of the Supreme Council is equally split on the election results and that there is a growing movement to oust Khomeni from the position of Supreme-Leader from within the council.
 
mmarsh said:
Folks

I was just listening to a report from al-Jazeera that mentioned something rather insightful. Appearently more is at stake than just the presidential elections. There is reported that the clergy of the Supreme Council is equally split on the election results and that there is a growing movement to oust Khomeni from the position of Supreme-Leader from within the council.
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I looked around for this but could not find anything on it. Could you post a link?
 
mmarsh said:
Folks

I was just listening to a report from al-Jazeera that mentioned something rather insightful. Appearently more is at stake than just the presidential elections. There is reported that the clergy of the Supreme Council is equally split on the election results and that there is a growing movement to oust Khomeni from the position of Supreme-Leader from within the council.
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Wow, great find.
I wished we got Al Jazeera here. I can watch that in Indonesia and you get to see a lot of stuff you don't get to see through the regular networks. Biased or not, it's helpful to see things from a different angle.
Mmarsh, Chupike doesn't like "just saw it on TV" as a source when the news upsets him.
 
Chukpike, here is a link to Jeremey Bowen, BBC news, who also talks about the split now shifting to the upper echelons. I have also heard this echoed on CNN & MSNBC. The main thrust seems to be that since Khamenei has come out so strongly, whilst Rafsanjani has remained very quiet, that all is not well in the Kingdom of Denmark, err Iran.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8105207.stm

Also from the BBC is a quick biog on some of the key players. I would like to remind everyone that Mousavi was selected to run for the presidential office, by Khamenei. He was also part of the original 1979 revolution and thus may not be the great reformer that everyone wants him to be!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/8102406.stm
 
I just wish that idiot would stop accusing the US for medaling in the election, I really don't give a rats who is their "president" that freak in the bath robes is the real leader of Iran
 
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